quote:

Originally posted by wrestle05:

quote:

Originally posted by SlvrHwk:
Right off the top of my head:

Ryan Salisbury, state medalist
Mike Stephenson, state medalist
Marcus Odorisio, state qualifier
Sean Quinlan, state qualifier
Alex Mohanna, state medalist
Seth Kolar, state medalist
Charles Olson, state qualifier

None of these guys had an extensive wrestling background.

4 state medalist over 15 years or however long Skutt has been around? Thats all you can come up with? No way does that make a team that can sustain 12 years of success.

Airborne, Ouch!

Really? I thought every wrestler on every high school team started as a freshmen. Or is Skutt the only team that has kids who wrestle club before going to high school?

Also I'm pretty sure those are the only kids Skutt has ever had that have started in high school that have gone to state...

Skutt definitely recruits and could never win anything if they didn't. Skutt wrestlers get cars for goodness sakes. You see the one zach cottle got, its like a 2009 mercedes benz.

I think that other schools can come up with similar lists such as ours here at Crete, but here it goes for wrestlers that haven't had much experience outside of HS. This has been in the past five years...

Nate Clement- 1x qualifier, 1x state runner-up
Jeff Jirovec- 1x qualifier, 1x state medalist
Shawn Baker- 2x state medalist
Ethan Shunkwiler- 1x qualifier
Jesh Wright- 1x qualifier

If you start with a good athlete, you can get much farther than with an average joe (duh). Four out of those five were excellent athletes that participated in lots of other sports, and they wrestled in the winter. One was just about as strong as I have ever seen for a little guy. Incredible grip. Its tough to make a wrestler out of your ordinary hs kid walking down the hall. Years of practice, drive, and dedication make this process much easier.

Other schools have got to have the same type of stories out there. What are some of them? I think all schools to some degree have developed kids that have not had extensive experience wrestling into solid ones.

Drew Stone had never even touched a mat until he was a freshman in high school. He ended his career a 2 time state qualifier with over 60 career wins.

Mr Brain Freeze : Double ouch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is just one example I have experienced. Duane Feddern - LHNE
Set foot on the mat for the first time as a freshman.
3x qualifier
2x placer (4th, 2nd)
Currently wrestling for Dana

Coach Aschoff

At my days in BruningDavenportDeshler:

Jed Williams 3X qualifier, never set foot on the mat until a freshman. He wrestled 119 all four years.
Spencer Reetz 2X qualifier, never seen a wrestling mat before his freshman year. 145 and 152 I think.
Tim Eggers qualifier at 215, wrestled 215 all four years.
Jake Noojin qualifier at 171. Played BB for three years at Deshler and came out for wrestling as a senior. Still playing college fb somewhere I believe. He was an all out athlete! He did wrestle pretty well in jr high however in fairbury.

debate this

Private schools' success source of quiet debate

BY CHAD PURCELL



WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER


The conversations tend to be more hushed than hollered. The most passionate discussions are kept on the down low more often than they are quoted on the record.

Big Winners
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of state championships, four of the five winningest school (Class A and B) programs over the past five years are parochial schools. Lincoln East is the lone public school to crack the list:

School Titles
Omaha Skutt 14
Lincoln Pius X 13
Lincoln East 12
Omaha Creighton Prep 12
Omaha Marian 12


Percentages

• Figures based on schools competing (in girls or boys basketball) during the five-year period beginning in 2001-02 and ending in 2005-06:

• 313 :Number of schools.

• 12.46: Percentage of schools that are private/parochial (39 schools)

• 325: Number of state title awarded.

• 35.07: Percentage of state titles won by private/parochial schools (114 titles).

Titles won

• In the past 12 school years of combined boys-girls All-Sports championships, parochial schools have won 10 times in Class B, 11 times in Class C and nine times in Class D.


Coaches and administrators at many Nebraska public high schools might not always vent openly about their feelings when it comes to private-school dominance of prep athletics.

But by most accounts, they do vent.

"Here's the deal: Everybody talks about this behind closed doors, but nobody wants to say anything in the papers," said Jim Weeks, boys basketball coach at Beatrice High School. "Coaches will talk about this all the time when they're together watching a track meet, or wherever it might be. If anybody claims that this isn't an issue, that's baloney."

The public vs. parochial sports debate is not new, of course.

For decades, people involved in high school sports around the country have argued that private schools enjoy an unfair competitive advantage. For just as long, many have countered that private schools are unfairly singled out and lumped together for being successful.

There's no doubt many are successful in Nebraska. Among the state's 313 schools that field varsity athletics, 39, or 12 percent, are private - and they have won 114, or 35 percent, of the state championships over the past five seasons.

During the past 12 years of The World-Herald's combined boys-girls All-Sports Award, parochial schools have won 10 times in Class B, 11 times in Class C and nine times in Class D.

Of the five teams that have won the most state titles since 2001-02, four are private schools: Omaha Marian (12 titles) and Omaha Creighton Prep (12) in Class A, and Omaha Skutt (14) and Lincoln Pius X (13) in Class B. The only public school in the top five is Lincoln East in Class A with 12 championships.

Skutt has won the Class B All-Sports title the past two seasons, and in 2005-06 the Omaha school won state championships in football, wrestling, boys basketball, boys golf, girls soccer and girls tennis.

"Do private schools have an advantage? I think it's pretty clear," Weeks said. "I know things are never going to be equal, but it would be nice if they were a bit more fair."

The answer, in the minds of some, is to introduce a "multiplier," an idea proposed in recent years. Such a system would multiply the state's parochial school enrollments by 1.35 to determine the class in which those schools should compete.

That formula would've moved some traditionally strong private programs up a class - like Falls City Sacred Heart from Class D-1, Columbus Scotus from Class C-1 and Lincoln Pius X from Class B.

Similar multiplier systems are used in Missouri, Arkansas and other states. In November, however, only two Nebraska School Activities Association legislative districts considered the 1.35 multiplier, and both rejected it.

Still, Yutan Superintendent Kevin Johnson, an advocate of the 1.35, doesn't think popular opinion on the issue can be gauged by the way the multiplier proposal fizzled in the NSAA's legislative process.

"I've been right in the middle of it, and it seems if you state your feelings you just get hammered," Johnson said. "I think everyone is kind of leery to talk about it, yet there are a lot of people who have the same feelings."



Where's the edge?

For the Rev. Robert Roh, the equation isn't so simple.

Roh, superintendent at Falls City Sacred Heart, takes issue with the idea that private schools by nature have an edge in sports.

If there's something automatically advantageous about fielding teams at a private school, Roh said, then all parochial schools should enjoy similar success. But of Nebraska's 39 non-public schools, 16 haven't won any state titles during the past five seasons.

And Roh resents how successful parochial schools get viewed differently from powerhouse public programs - like Kearney in track and field, South Sioux City in girls basketball or Millard North in football.

"There are a lot of inequalities all the way across the board," said Roh, a vocal opponent of the 1.35 multiplier. "But it just makes for easy labeling to talk about parochial schools winning a lot in sports. Just because you find one nun that cusses, you can't assume all nuns cuss.

"It's a fact that some parochial schools win, and it's a fact that some public schools win. But there always are going to be a number of factors that explain that, because every school is different."

For most people, the parochial vs. public sports debate in Nebraska has moved beyond accusations of recruiting. With the state's open enrollment policy, students have the option of attending a number of schools, be they public or private.

But the very act of attracting students to a school seems a two-sided coin, too.

On one side, private schools say it's a challenge to convince parents to pay for an education when they can go to a public school for free.

Flip the coin over, and many public school coaches and administrators argue that parochial schools benefit because they charge tuition. The parents who can afford to send their children to a private school also more often can dedicate resources to helping their sons and daughters excel in extracurricular activities.

In Class B, few would deny that Lincoln Pius X and Omaha Skutt have been successful because of the talent and tireless effort of their coaches and athletes.

Those schools do, however, seem in a unique position for success - because they compete in the state's second-largest class while building their student bodies from the state's two most populous cities.

Skutt, which opened in 1993, has benefited significantly from its location in the booming west Omaha growth area.

"I would not disagree with that," said Mike McMahon, who's entering his ninth year at Skutt and the sixth as athletic director. "At the same time, we can't do anything now about our location. We can't do anything about the population."

Skutt's campus is designed to handle no more than 800 students, and McMahon said the school isn't planning to expand in the foreseeable future.

McMahon, who spent 16 years coaching and teaching in the North Platte public school system, said he understands both sides of the public-private dispute. But the athletic director said Skutt's status as a private school by no means was the biggest factor in its surge of success.

"What we've really tried to do is just elevate the enthusiasm and work habits for all of our programs," he said. "We took a look around the state at what it takes to be competitive and asked all of our coaches to take a step up."



No easy answers

If there's one thing that people on both sides of the fence can agree on, it's that there's no simple solution that will make everybody happy.

And that's true across the country.

"This debate has just been around in one form or another for years and years," said Bob Kanaby, the executive director for the National Federation of High Schools. "It's not only widespread, it's ongoing."

In some larger states, like Texas, private schools and public schools are divided into separate organizations and compete for separate state championships.

Some public schools in Kentucky recently have pushed for a similar split, though that option doesn't seem realistic for less populated states like Nebraska.

Georgia's private schools have to multiply their enrollment by 1.5 for classification, but Kanaby said the state is debating whether it wants to continue with its multiplier.

And had the 1.35 multiplier passed in Nebraska, it still wouldn't have bumped Skutt up to Class A.

The NSAA is considering an unrelated proposal to boost Class A from 28 teams to 32 in most sports. But while that would move Lincoln Pius X to Class A, Skutt would remain in Class B: It's the 10th-largest school in the class.

Yutan's Johnson acknowledges the challenge in addressing what he perceives as an unfair advantage for parochial schools.

"Our conference did some research, found other states doing the multiplier and thought we'd throw it out and see if it would catch fire here," he said. "I still think something needs to be done."

Some wrestling coaches have expressed a desire to expand Class A from 32 to 40 teams in that sport alone. But many feel the motive behind that proposal merely is to move nine-time state champion Skutt out of Class B.

"As long as we continue to sponsor state championships," NSAA Executive Director Jim Tenopir said, "and as long as private schools continue to have the relative success they're having, this will continue to be a concern for many people.

"If you get too pushy with it, you're going to ruin some relationships, and that's not what we want to do. But this is a phenomenon that's not going to fade away."

World-Herald staff writer Stu Pospisil contributed to this report.


Contact the Omaha World-Herald newsroom

it was first posted
Posted July 09, 2006 08:11 PM

Nuke, Looks to me like a tie on pros and cons depending what side of the fence you sit.

Just like life, there're things we just can't change. Just like life: adapt and overcome.
Isn't this the real question we should be asking:

So the issue the article ignores (or refuses to discuss at a later article) is:
Given the success of a school in a system we can't change.....Could there possibly be some good ideas we can benchmark and implement in our own public school wrestling programs?

I still say we can. But it requires a deeper level of committment from both wrestler and coach not just doing "the seasonal thing".

The sum of extra efforts may not still be enough to overcome the so called "advantages" Skutt has, ....But could it possibly make a difference in the quality of our wrestlers for the season ahead, as compared to the prior?

Frankly, when I look at the opportunities available in our state and neighboring Iowa/Missouri/Kansas (freestyle/greco, camps, clinics, summer leagues, cornhusker games) and the lackluster attendance by many of our "dedicated" wrestlers, I think it lessens credibility on the argument that Skutt's competition, as a private school, is unfair.

I was taken back this past Summer by the folks from Scottsbluff (Kearney Catholic as well), who made the long trek off-season to Omaha and Lincoln to participate in Freestyle/Greco-State and Folkstyle (Cornhusker Games)tourneys, with whatever kids they could gather, even HS aspiring 8th graders. That's the kind of spirit and adult dedication that in my opinion, is needed to resemble some of the good things Skutt does year-round to succeed in wrestling. And in $$$tight days like these, the logistics/transport can be shared. Scottsbluff and Kearney are certainly not around the corner from Omaha/Lincoln.

Bottom-line: Some debates will continue (public vs private", recruiting vs can't do...) But to ignore or say that we can't take some good ideas from Skutt and implement them at large, is simply:
"starvation amongst plenty"

That's my last take on this long (now 3 pages) string, so fire-away as you see fit.

Hooah,
AB

IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME THAT THE BIGGEST GRIPE ABOUT SCUTT IS THEIR RECRUITING. THERE IS A OPEN ENROLLEMT LAW IN THE STATE OF NEBRASKA SO WE ALL HAVE THAT OPTION.SO DONT GRIPE ABOUT IT GO OUT AND RECRUIT.

quote:

Originally posted by cubbie:
IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME THAT THE BIGGEST GRIPE ABOUT SCUTT IS THEIR RECRUITING. THERE IS A OPEN ENROLLEMT LAW IN THE STATE OF NEBRASKA SO WE ALL HAVE THAT OPTION.SO DONT GRIPE ABOUT IT GO OUT AND RECRUIT.

It may be a law but not everyone has that option. Some schools dont accept kids through open enrollment. The other advantage Skutt has is they have 1/2 million people in the area. Does Broken Bow or most other B schools have the same opportunity? If you are comparing Skutt to most A schools you are correct but not to most of the B schools.

just so we all get it right, in order to get into prep and i dont know to much about other private schools, you have to pass the the entrance exam. i went to prep because of the education and connections you recieve comming out and moving on onto college. massey who is a good friend once told me if you do your job right as a coach you shouldnt have to recruit or even consider doing it all. and as far as i am concerned if we can have 8 man football we can have 3 classes of wrestling.
weather anyone recruits or not who cares, either your better or your not on the mat!!!!

Wow,now if you could get all these legs to just read with an open mind!

I do not believe Tim Carlson had extensive time on the mat, but finished 2nd. Matt Kathol right now started as a freshman. Go to a JV or freshman tournament and ask the wrestlers what makes it work? Ask why they put themselves thru the system when they may not make varsity. Or just complain about the system. Skutt needs to recruit for football this year and perhaps soccer next year. Let them know if you have a good athlete. Someone told me they had 6 National Merit Scholars. Are they all top notch athletes? How does the school stand up academically against others? Certainly, the Archdiocese would not stand for failing grades and good wrestling?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Freeze:

quote:

Originally posted by wrestle05:

quote:

Originally posted by SlvrHwk:
Right off the top of my head:

Ryan Salisbury, state medalist
Mike Stephenson, state medalist
Marcus Odorisio, state qualifier
Sean Quinlan, state qualifier
Alex Mohanna, state medalist
Seth Kolar, state medalist
Charles Olson, state qualifier

None of these guys had an extensive wrestling background.

4 state medalist over 15 years or however long Skutt has been around? Thats all you can come up with? No way does that make a team that can sustain 12 years of success.

Airborne, Ouch!

Really? I thought every wrestler on every high school team started as a freshmen. Or is Skutt the only team that has kids who wrestle club before going to high school?

Also I'm pretty sure those are the only kids Skutt has ever had that have started in high school that have gone to state...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kally,

i dont like it but
the kids work thier butts off to win.
put them in any class and they will do well
mat time make champs
but if your working out with the good wrestlers day in and out your getting something every one else insn't.

How come no one complains about non Catholic Parochial schools? Do they not have the same opportunities to "recruit"? I think families are drawn to success. It is natural to want the best for your child.

"Like" real mature Timeouts - I bet you lost to Z at some point in your career. Probably got screwed by the ref. too. Go figure.

quote:

Originally posted by cubbie:
IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME THAT THE BIGGEST GRIPE ABOUT SCUTT IS THEIR RECRUITING. THERE IS A OPEN ENROLLEMT LAW IN THE STATE OF NEBRASKA SO WE ALL HAVE THAT OPTION.SO DONT GRIPE ABOUT IT GO OUT AND RECRUIT.

It's hard to recruit to a team that doesn't have a good name. A parent doesn't want to go out of their way to bring their kid to a school that they don't even know has very good wrestling program. They would rather send their kid to a school like Skutt that actually has the reputation of being an elite team. It sounds to me like people just want to complain that their kid isn't on a good team.

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Freeze:
Nuke- Your right Nebraska needs 5 classes instead of the four it already has. That would solve the problems.

Put Skutt in Class A and they would never win a state championship. They have never beaten any Class A schools and never will be able to. Every school in the metro area can draw from 1/2 million people with open enrollment. Skutt must be doing the same things as all those other schools in the metro area.



Put Skutt in Class A and they would never win a state championship...huh....They would never be able to beat Class A team if they were in class A....Well first off they have a Class A team in the Confrence...and they have Millard South over in their tournament last year and stomped them..and if I remember Millard South was the Class A state champions...Also Skutt goes to the Clash which hosts some of the best teams around....so dont say they dont face anyone tough

quote:

Originally posted by Ridintime:
just so we all get it right, in order to get into prep and i dont know to much about other private schools, you have to pass the the entrance exam. i went to prep because of the education and connections you recieve comming out and moving on onto college. massey who is a good friend once told me if you do your job right as a coach you shouldnt have to recruit or even consider doing it all. and as far as i am concerned if we can have 8 man football we can have 3 classes of wrestling.
weather anyone recruits or not who cares, either your better or your not on the mat!!!!

Dont mean to downgrade anyone so take this with a smile as it is intended. However if this post is any indication the grammar part of preps entrance exam must not have been to tough!