Frank (and other concerned readers),

You asked me if I had a plan to implement seeding at state. Here goes……….

Seed only the four district champions. Once they are seeded then the bracket is just like it always has been as far as placing the other 12 wrestlers. (Use the same four bracket formulas that they always have, only you wouldn’t draw which weight class got which draw. It would be determined by the seeding of district champions. So within each quarter 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 from different districts, just like always.)

The seeding criteria would be this:
1) head to head
2) common opponent (2 commons versus 1 common would give criteria to wrestler with two commons over the other wrestler. If commons are tied go to number 3.
3) # of wins versus this years state qualifiers, regardless of class or weight class.
4) Tie breaker would be # of wins versus winning records before district competition.
5) If tied after all of that, draw for those individuals involved and place them in appropriate slot.


What would it take to implement this:
1) District directors, or an appointed individual/coach, would have to send records of seedable wrestlers used at seeding meetings to the state committee. This information would be posted on the nsaa page and list only the individuals with winning records from each district. Going in to districts every coach should know how many wins they have against winning records. (This may mean that every seeding meeting might have to be completed before Friday morning of districts. If not, every coach should know how many kids they have beaten with a winning record by Friday night of the district tourney.) The seedable wrestlers in each district were posted on huskermat for most b, c, and d districts. It isn’t hard and wouldn’t be hard to get it to NSAA. The only problem with this is an injured wrestler that doesn’t compete at districts. My poor solution……..that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
2) Each district champion would have to have an excel spreadsheet (or some other submitted form on NSAA) of their season: wins, losses, and forfeits including names and teams of opponents. Also included would be the total number of wins versus winning records. This info would need to be sent to the state committee as soon as the district tournament is over. (Preferably, before they leave the district site, which may mean that the computer lab at the district site is made available on Saturday afternoon for champion coaches) Fax for technology impaired, email or submit spreadsheet by tournament director for technological savvy. This would be 14 sheets of paper sent to the committee per district, 56 total per class for the whole state, for the state committee to use to select seeds 1-4 at the state tournament.

By doing these two things the state committee would have all the info they would need to implement a seeding of district champions. It seems like a lot of work, but maybe it isn’t as painful as it seems. The seedable records are done now on this forum for the most part, and every coach has a stat sheet for every wrestler, albeit all are not on computer. More work for someone at the tournament, or tournament director, is a downfall but worth it in my opinion.

All this effort just to make sure that two undefeated records are on opposite sides? Maybe……….. The best two wrestlers in the finals? Maybe………… Worth it? I think so…………..

If you think it wouldn’t fly because of sending wrestler’s season record in, fine, omit that and just have 1, 2, and 3. How many state qualifiers you beat becomes very important and probably is enough to separate out two undefeated seasons. But then again, to figure out common opponents, district champions would have to send in a list anyway……..Forget this, district champions have to send in their season! Sorry coaches........

I tried to make it so it wasn’t about winning percentage and forfeits and ducking competition, and more about seeking out good competition and finding quality wins. Who is the state committee? I don’t know. I think it possibly has to be a combination of some coaches, excoaches, refs, refs not working the state tournament, ADs with a wrestling background, and Boysen to put his stamp on the final product. This would have to be a late Saturday night event or an early Sunday morning meeting. By making more work for tournament directors and AD’s this clearly won’t be voted for, but I’m hoping……………… Tear it apart!

I didn't address out of state competition.... If a coach can prove they beat a kid from Wyoming with a winning record, then it would count. How do you prove it? I don't know, but someone out there does.

Looks like a good idea to me. Hate to be a pain here, but what happens when the 2 best kids are from the same district. Is there any way to make sure district 2nd place are on opposite sides from same district champs? I know I've seen more than one state finals is a district rematch.
Who takes care of the nsaa basketball data base? They have a points system that allows for stength of scedule and so on, and have wildcard teams. I posted in another post my idea of taking the top 3 wrestlers from each district and the next best 4 statewide to make a 16 man bracket. I know this more than likely would't fly either, but if we are makeing changes, this is one I would be in favor of.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cowcatcher,

The best quote I heard about seeding came from Skutt's coach Hildebrandt (sorry if I spelled that wrong) "It doesn't matter where you put him he will wrestle anybody he has to." Probably not the exact quote but pretty close.
I will get to the quote later but first I want to say this. I am in favor of seeding the district champs. I think this would be good for the state tournament, but the best way to get this done is to make it as easy as possible for the NSAA. I read several different proposals and most would cause a lot of problems for the NSAA and therefore would make it harder for them to get passed.
What I do not like seeing in the semi's is two undefeated wrestlers going at it. That is why I think that seeding just based on percentage would be the way to go. It is simple and easy for the NSAA and anyone seeding to do. If someone ducks everybody and has a good record they probably will not go very far when they do finally have to wrestle some competition. There is no ducking at districts and state. This is where the quote comes in. If someone is the best wrestling in the state they will probably win, and will be willing to wrestle whoever they have to. I know making the parade is really nice and a goal of many wrestlers, but to be the best you have to beat the best no matter what round it is. Let the backlash begin.


Jarod Owens

I like your plan chief.

cowcatcher:

With the current bracket forumulas, which would still be in place under my proposal, the district champ and runner up from a particular district are always on opposite sides. That is why I thought it important to keep the current formulas and just seed the district champs.

JaredO:

I hear you, BUT I don't like the fact that you are benefited by not seeking out the best competition. Why penalize a team like prep or gross that goes to the clash? Your idea is better than no seeding and more likely to go through, but I still think my idea is plausible and asks teams, coaches, and individuals to wrestle as many tough kids as they can. I get the quote of put anybody in front of me.........You've got to beat them all to get gold.........but several individuals have deserved to be in the parade on tv that haven't. Would your simple winning percentage seeding solve most of this? Yes. Can we do more? Yes.

It's kind of funny that the solution to the seeding problems needs to be SIMPLE for the NSAA to implement after they dumped a paper-work NIGHTMARE on the wrestling coaches of this state via the weight loss/hydration rules changes!

Not uncommon to have the best two kids in the same district:

Kid A and kid B are the best two in the weight, no question.Their schools are in close proximity,same conference and district...so they've met 3 times and kid A came out on top in three very closely contested matches.Kid C is out west and is undefeated,and kid D has 1 loss.