Here is a link for the latest.

http://www.kolnkgin.com/news/headlines/26475854.html

Unbelievable.

Run 'em out of town asap.

It seemed like UNL's program was heading in the right direction with last year's results and with everyone staying out of trouble, and now this. This is not good for UNL and wrestling in general. I can't believe it.

Just when you think you've read/heard/seen it all...

I really have no idea how to react to this news. Really...I'm absolutely stunned silent.

I'm not posting a link, but there's a U of Nebraska news website that tracks athletes who get in trouble that has much more on this story. Apparently they also did video of some pretty lewd stuff. Warning, if you find this site, just don't scroll down

I saw that website -- and you're right...scrolling down is not a good idea.

I'm just flabbergasted by this...it's embarrassing not only for them and their families, but for the team, the university, the state AND the sport.

On the bright side, though...the Weird-Harold only devoted two paragraphs to it and the TV stations -- as they usually do with our sport -- have ignored it altogether. And there hasn't been anything on any of the major news websites, either...

If there has been any time I've been happy to see our sport ignored by most of the mainstream media in this state, this is one of those times...

Sick and disgusting behavior I feel bad for Manning and the NE program right now. Those two really blew it for themselves as far as wrestling goes IMHO. Manning needs to boot them quick and cut his loses now.

I don't know that there's any other out for Manning at this point. It's hard to let on-mat talent like that go, but all things considered he has no option BUT to let them go.

The thing about this is that it's such an unprecedented kind of screw-up. College athletes have been busted for DWI, assault, drugs, cheating on grades, etc. -- but the Internet presents a whole new level of opportunity for people to get caught doing stupid stuff...and for it to be reported, witnessed AND distributed to an audience that is LITERALLY worldwide.

The thing that bothers me most about this is that their actions, if proven to be true, hurt more than just them as individuals. It hurts the program, the fans of the program, the university and the ENTIRE wrestling community. We've got enough ignorant morons out there who look at this sport with a homo-erotic point of view, and while their actions, in and of themselves, aren't of a homosexual nature, the place they were posted -- combined with the viewpoint some people have of our sport -- are going to give our sport an undeserved black eye in the mainstream press.

And this isn't something that is going to just disappear for these guys. This is something that is going to haunt them for a long, long time. I would guess that coaches and parents looking for wrestlers to serve as assistants or camp counselors aren't going to want to have wrestlers with THIS kind of reputation to be anywhere near their program, and the fact that it's on the Internet is only going to perpetuate the problem for them. This isn't a DWI arrest that's going to be forgotten about 2-3 years from now...this is a new kind of screw-up that I'm sure is going to be talked about for some time (it already had 7 pages worth of comments on TheMat.com's forum as of late Sunday a.m.).

I think that Manning has a unique opportunity to show what kind of program that he has. The offense that these two are being accused of is embarrassing to say the least, but it's not a criminal act such as DUI, drugs, assault, etc. How many athletes have we seen with these previous problems come back into competition after a punishment of some kind? Obviously, if true, they'll not be competing on the mat, but to just 'cut your losses' would not be what I hope Manning and NU are about. True they'll be letting down NU, their teammates and coaches and peers, but what kind of example does NU want to set since there's no precedence? Does NU just get rid of bad press and not try to help these young men understand they made a huge judgement in error or help them to try and save some face and complete their education? There are alot of losers in this scandal, but I am going to try and make it a positive for myself. I got to 'try' and explain to my 12 yr old why his friend and idol made an error in judgement so that he understands what kind of mistakes in life are unacceptable, especially when you're a teammate, role model, representative of an institution, etc.

I think if they are dismissed from the team they will have learned a very big lesson about what they did and the consequences of being stupid. I wonder if this will cost Manning his job?

Scrambler -- I don't think Manning's job is in danger over this. If we still had Stevie P. in as AD it might be different, because Stevie P. was all about image and he'd have been more concerned with how people perceived HIM than what this does for the program or the individuals involved.

When you get down to it, there is nothing ILLEGAL in what they did (unless they got paid for it, at which point it may or may not run afoul of NCAA rules...I'm sure they have a rule in place that makes it illegal for college students to get paid for having their images posted on ANY website for ANY reason). There is obviously some major moral and/or ethical issues involved, though, that would make it difficult, if not impossible, to justify keeping them on the team in any capacity.

As I said earlier, this is something of a groundbreaking situation. I can't think of any instance in which an athlete has gotten in trouble for anything of this nature before.

The easy answer is to play the "code of conduct" card and dismiss them on those grounds, and I agree that's what SHOULD be done...I'm just not sure if that's the right LEGAL response that Manning and/or UNL can take here.

If the porn site turns a profit, regardless if these guys got paid or not it is illegal, or at least would have been in 2005. When I was part of the NCAA Student Athlete Advisory Committee a proposed piece of legislation would have made it legal for athletes or their image to be used for financial gain. Since the NCAA is a "non-profit organization" this is not contradictory in marketing athletic events using current athletes. However, it got voted down at the NCAA convention then (2005). Even though that was DII specific legislation, I know that at that time it was also illegal in DI. If anyone remembers there was a certain ESPN commercial with Matt Leinhart, or Regie Bush (can't remember which) that put their Rose Bowl in doubt.

But let's be real, no one exposes themselves like that for free. The NCAA will not only have to look at how much they made, since it caps how much it's student athletes get paid, but also the legitimacy of their work, i.e. the Oklahoma quarterback situation a few years ago. The last one may be a bit of a grey area, but that is why the NCAA employs tons of lawyers, especially within their enforcement branch. The NCAA did allow Notre Dame safety to box for a purse of $10,000 a few years ago but he had to have written permission from the NCAA, and had to donate all the money he earned.

I'm not trying to imply that I am an NCAA rules expert, but those are some issues that I think are going to cause UNL (or at least these two) some problems. If anyone had some time while waiting for the Olympic wrestling to start they could look any of this up at ncaa.org. The entire set of rules and regulations can be found there, but you may want to call your family lawyer to interpret.

I hope lessons were learned, and I feel sorry for guys like Brester, Oliver, Brown...etc that may have team success jeopardized because of these decisions. Nebraska would be fairly tough next year and give Iowa a run at Nationals if these two are part of the team

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aaron Dalton,

A couple of other thoughts came to mind this evening, one courtesy of a phone call from a friend of mine:

1. I watched a documentary about the porn industry a few years ago, and as I recall from some of the interviews that were conducted, women make a TON more money than men do for their "acting" -- the number I recall was 3-5 times as much. There are also financial incentives for performing certain acts (which I'm not going to detail here, obviously). Now granted, this documentary focused on the traditional genre and not gay porn or other non-traditional versions of the industry, so I don't know if there are any similarities or differences between the two.

I mention this because, if what was said in the documentary is true, there probably wasn't a LOT of money involved here -- probably less than $1,000 total. I know the NCAA has a limit to how much a student-athlete on scholarship can earn, but I wouldn't think the money involved here would have been enough to get them in dutch with the NCAA (then again, it IS the NCAA, and I learned long ago that common sense usually doesn't figure in some of their laws).

2. This was something the friend threw out to me during our conversation, and I can't believe this didn't enter my thought process sooner -- what if those images are NOT of Paul and Kenny? What if those images are head shots of those two and body shots of somebody else?

With today's modern graphic-manipulation tools (Photoshop, etc.), it's very easy to change a picture into something completely different. I could put my head from one picture on somebody else's body in another picture and manipulate it such that the untrained eye (and even the TRAINED eye, in some cases) wouldn't know the difference. I could put my head on, say, Brad Vering's body and -- unless you've seen me anytime in the past year or so or know my workout habits -- you'd think I'd been losing weight and training like a mad man.

It wouldn't be difficult at all for somebody to not only cut and paste heads, but tattoos, birthmarks, etc. Today's software makes it very easy for somebody to take "artistic license" to an image and turn it into something it's not. There are even some in the journalism industry who have been known to do this, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to make it happen.

Like I said earlier -- this is kind of murky water we are swimming in right now, and until the truth is found out a lot of these "what if" questions are going to be hovering around the program AND these kids...both those involved in the incident and their teammates.

I feel horrible for coach Manning and the rest of the people involved in the program -- this is something they should not have to worry about, and like Aaron said, I hope the other kids in the program learn from this ordeal because EVERYTHING they do outside the wrestling room is being watched, now more than ever after this incident.

Like it or not, these kids are held to a higher standard in the community, both on campus and in our society. It only takes one screw-up to bring this ride to a complete stop, and this situation is something that is going to follow Paul and Kenny around for a long, long time.

This is the first time I have heard of guys doing something like this, but has there ever been any instances of girls on NCAA athletic teams doing this and what happened to them.

I tried to stay away from this but I guess I have no will-power. As far as photshop goes; if it was, then how hard did they work to get that beautiful "N" tattoo on Paul's leg? I'm sure the university appreciates their logo on the leg of someone on a gay porn site. I am no expert, but that in itself could be a violation of scholarship rules.

Second, when every student/athlete signs their papers to accept university money, there is a code of conduct section on each form. I know some athletes violate this and it gets overlooked, because it is a judgement call, but this may be the main reason for dismissal. This will weigh more towards a decision (in my opinion) than how much, if any, money they recieved. I feel TO will be more strict on this than Steve P. would have.

Third, there have been instances before this where scholarship rules have been abused by student/athletes. The most recent is the Oklahoma player who made the rap video. There was also cheerleaders from ?? who posed in their underwear on a web site who were dismissed. If I were to search hard enough on badjocks.com (which has this story on it), I'm sure I could find quite a few more.

I do find it comical on the other hand that every time expectations are so high for the Skers, something comes up and bites... O.K. that is a bad analogy. If you go back in the archives here, I have been critical of Manning and the entire program, because of disciplinary problems in the past. They will gain a little more respect from the wrestling community, and myself, if they cut their ties with these two clowns and move on. It could also have a huge impact on recruiting if these two stay. At this point it is no longer about winning the Big 5 or the NCAA's, it is about doing the right thing. If not, every dual and tournament will be like a fraternity hazing directed towards Manning and his boys.

P.S. That will hurt really bad when they pull those smiley face stickers off. LOL.

Remember-CLONESRULE!!!

The NCAA makes guys donate purses from doing local MMA. Therefore, I don't think it is a matter of the totality of the money, but rather services rendered. In MMA, a college athlete can't work (fight) for 20 min (or however long the fight lasts), and make $500. This guards against car dealerships (as in the case of Oklahoma Quarterback) paying a guy $100 an hour for vacuuming out trade-ins. Athletes can't be paid hours they didn't work, or get paid more than what is reasonable for the time spent working. This attempts to make it even across the board for all part-time jobs a student-athlete might have, guarding against competitive advantages.

I don't know what if any the NCAA will cite as violations, I have just tried to illustrate a few concerns, and it goes beyond just punishment for these two. I hate to keep harping on the Oklahoma case, but it is recent and a fairly familiar example. That case was an instance of self-reporting. Basically the NCAA encourages institutions to self-report infractions in return for leniency. OU turned them selves in, and perhaps wouldn't have gotten caught otherwise, but still lost two scholarships for two years among many other penalties.

I know a lot of this sounds nit picky, and how can these guys know all of this, but every athletic department has a compliance officer. UNL happens to have three (last I knew). It is their job to inform the student-athlete of the rules. At Kearney we had a ~2-3 hour meeting at the beginning of every year to inform us. At UNL they have days if not weeks of them.

I could've sworn that Paul had his last name tatoo'd vertically on his arm? I really think this is the old trick of cut and paste and it's not them.