You told me to reply on another discussion so i will. i didnt start the arguement...and yes i did make sense! If 525 and Andrew_Delarge realized that giving your all means losing all they might have some room to talk. Those wrestlers out there who drop 20+ lbs are brave...even the ones who only lose 5 are! Wrestling is a tough sport and if you are on here to bash it then find a new hobby cuz no one else wants to hear it!

exactly...even though i was a big guy(215 weight class) i would cut 30lbs to get to 215 and by State i was down to 205.

exactly my point...atleast someone agrees with me! I guarantee that there are atleast a hundred other people on here who have cut that much weight and know that you can still be strong! Still want to argue with me?

How is losing 20 pounds brave? How is losing 30 pounds smart? There is also a difference if you are chubby and have a large amount of excess body fat to lose (20% plus). If you are 125 and cut to 103 in high school, with 10% body fat it is not the same thing. I cut my fair share of weight and I discourage kids from doing it. As a wrestling community we have to be somewhat image and health conscious. We want to grow our sport not scare people of with stories of "I cut 30 pounds". When actually you proably only cut 10. Using that time and energy you are wasting cutting weight to improve your skill level and physical shape, that is working smart and giving all that you have. Doing this will raise the level of wrestling. More people will become interested and more people will participate.

quote:

Originally posted by HardWorkCounts:
You told me to reply on another discussion so i will. i didnt start the arguement...and yes i did make sense! If 525 and Andrew_Delarge realized that giving your all means losing all they might have some room to talk. Those wrestlers out there who drop 20+ lbs are brave...even the ones who only lose 5 are! Wrestling is a tough sport and if you are on here to bash it then find a new hobby cuz no one else wants to hear it!

Thanks for starting this new thread. I think there will be several people interested in responding and having an intelligent discussion on the subject.

I don't have a problem with kids cutting weight. I do have problem with kids cutting weight if it causes them to lose muscle in the process. Yes this happens all the time. What does a wrestler gain if he loses muscle to get to that next lower weight class? He gets weaker and therefore the ratio strength proportion is probably not any different than if he was at the next weight class up. Most of the time its worst.

I read some examples of big guys cutting 20 to 30 pounds. I and "BAM" aren't referring to those guys. I'm referring to the guys at around 152 and under...primarily the light weights. There are alot of kids under 7 percent body fat naturally that are trying to cut 10 more pounds...that's not healthy...surely you don't agree that it is?

Cutting off some body fat isn't what I disagree with...its when they go beyond that and cut muscle thats wrong.

I think kids should lift during the season. If someone won't lift because they are afraid of gaining weight then they are probably cutting to much weight to begin with.

You call cutting that much weight.."dedication", I call it misimformed and they will realize it when they get older. Most of the people that will agree with BAM and I will be the older/ex-wrestlers that have been there done that already. I cut too much weight in high school and I realize now why I had more success in the off season wrestling freestyle. I didn't cut much in the off season and my strength ratio was much greater. Example: sophmore year I benched 245 weighing 132 before the season started...I cut to 115 pounds that year...after the season we went into our powerlifting season...by the end of the season my bench still hadn't gotten back over 185 and that's after 2 months of lifting...my weight class was 132 in power lifting. Same thing happened my Junior year.

Again in closing...I'm not saying that wrestlers shouldn't cut weight..I'm saying do it sensibly and without losing muscle...that's it..plain and simple. If your body fat is at 4 percent naturally, then what are you cutting for. Cutting to the next lower weight doesn't mean the competition is going to be easier..that's proven year after year. One more thing to consider is our ammune system. It's weaker if our body isn't getting what it needs...this is fact. There sure where alot of kids sick last year towards the end of the season...makes me wonder how vulnerible they were because of cutting too much weight.

Amen!!!!!

couldn't have said it better 525

Peace


Deano

I think the new rule being implemented next could be very good for our sports overall image. I stress "could be"...I hope there aren't any loop holes and everything is fair. As for now I will trust that it will be.

Well said 525.

I am wondering how the NSAA will implement the body fat testing and hydration testing next year. Does anyone know how it will be done and if each school will receive the same equipment to do the testing, so that everyone is doing it the same? Just curious to see if they will use calipers or a scale that tells you the bodyfat percentage or exactly what type of equipment will be used.

Thank you 525 for replying...now i see that you were not trying to insult...as for that other kid he must disagree. I completely agree about body fat percentage. I myself have 4%! Sounds horrible I know but its natural...I lose no weight and at girls weight would wrestle 98, although I do not because my area has no programs for girls. If I could I WOULD SURE JUMP IN! Thank you for your opinion you are very well informed on the sport, I am impressed at your thoughts. As for the rest of my speech I still believe that every part of wrestling involves dedication, including weight loss. It is brave to know that you could get put in the hospital but would still give anything just to be at that weight and my opinion will never change.

None of the details of the body fat requiremments have been released or even decided for that matter. As for schools doing the testing, I don't think that's in the plan. And I doubt NSAA will provide equipment to the schools. There are alot of details to work out on this program. The sooner the better.

Our school has special hand-held "tools" that read your body fat. I have used it as well as others and I know several have come back saying ERROR! That is because it cannot read your BMI correctly if you are not average. You put in your weight and then put your thumbs on the metal pieces and hook a heart monitor to your chest...mine said ERROR-4...does that mean I'm dead? Surely not but getting back to the subject if that equiptment doesn't work and it is high quality how else would they check besides using those little plastic thingies? Those CANNOT be right...

Great question...

The only accurate way is to have a Doctor administer a true body fat test. Of course this costs money. Who pays for it? and will all Doctors test the same? Will some give a little when others won't. NSAA should have a set way to administer the test and have a Doctor sign off that it was administered that same way. Even then I see loop holes. Oh well, I guess there will always be cheaters...unfortunately cheaters sometimes win.

I hope it all works out.

Yes those little handheld ones...diffenitely will not work.

BMI (Body Mass Index) is one of the least accurate ways to do it (if that is what you were talking about). It doesn't take into account any muscle mass at all. For example, many NFL players are considered morbidly obese, however one would be able to argue that they are some of the most fit people in sports (maybe linemen are an except, but they are still extremely athletic). If you are talking about Bioelectical Impedence, which would be placing you hands on metal plates, similar to a heart rate monitor (just check to see what it is). This method of testing is becoming almost as reliable to underwater weighting (which is considered the gold standard). I have experienced all methods of tests, even the skin calipers (plastic thingys). By far Bioelectrical impedence is the easiest to do, the data is beginning to build up on it's reliablity. Skin fold assessment is reliable, however it can vary depending on who does it (roughly +/-3-5% between testers). Skinfolds also need to be performed with quality calipers, which are much more accurate than the plastic ones. Underwater weighting aka gold standard, is exteremly reliable, but has many variables in it (how much air is pushed out of lungs, testers, etc.) I'm intersted in seeing how this goes. I also wonder are they going to penalize someone how is naturally at 4% (I've even seen some that were as low as 2% without doing a thing, just that muscular) by making them gain weight?

Didn't see the post above me for some reason. Don't exactly know how good a doctor would be at body fat testing. To be proficeint in body fat testing, you need to do a large amount of them. I don't know how often a Dr. does a body fat measure, BMI sure, I haven't seen many do body fat testing.

Don't forget dehydration....they have to account for that too.

If their under 7% and its natural, then they just can't lose anymore weight. If they weigh 110...they have to wrestle 112.

I agree if someone is way out of reach of a weight class the shouldn't go down to another one. My question is more along the lines of a kid coming into body fat test and weights 104 with 4% natrually. To get to the 7% they would have to put on roughly 4-5 lbs putting them at 108-109, which depending could be a fairly light 12 pounder. Or how bout the case of someone at 147 at 4%. To get to 7% they would need a little over 5 lbs (5.44). This would techinically put them at a weight that is above 152, would they be required to compete at 160?

If you are naturally under 7%....you don't have to go to 7% and then wrestle that weight. Example 4% 108 pounds...he must wrestle 112, but he doesn't have to gain to 7%, he just can't go any lower.

You made a good comment about loop holes...well there are loop holes in the system we have now so any way you look at it everything fails...however i do agree that if you are NATURALLY (stress that) 4% then as long as you dont drop you will be fine. I would imagine that the testing would have to be done at the very beginning of the season to find the true body fat percentage and then that is recorded. Then throughout the season you may not drop below that by means of being tested regularly (just as often as you are weighed) But if you are about 7% you may drop only until you reach that point then you must stop...oh and another question, how would they do the underwater weighting? The school would have to buy more machines and that means less money for other sports. I guess it could be beneficial for other sports but what is the point. I am confused by this and I think that the 7% rule is ok but how in the world would they make a go of it???

Talking to my friend who is a board member this is what he thinks is going to happen next year. The NSAA will do the testing at the colleges, so teams would be required(prob. get reimburst like at state) to go to the nearest college and get it tested. So the west teams would prob go to chadron state, the central teams to like unk and hastings, northern east to wayne state, and so on. Just what he thought would be done.