Debo's Mom...

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Thanks radio man, you learn something new every day.

No Problem...and yes, we do.

We do????

I did not know that...

Sorry Mikey, I should have said "most of us do"...next time, I'll think of you before making all inclusive statements like that.

:P

Hey...I learned SOMETHING today...don't I get credit for that???

Im a landscape architect, wrestling coach (college and high school), wrestled in college and fought in a war. The one thing I learned from these experiences, is that sports greatly helps in success. If you put your mind to it and want it bad enough you can get it...hard work, persistance, goals, and making it through the up and downs. Unsuccessful people just sit there and feel sorry about themselves or dont get back up and do something. And you do not necessarily need to go to college to be successful. But academics, knowledge, learning from your mistakes and finding effiencent or better ways to get things done will make you successful. Most of the time you do not learn that in a classroom and it takes an activity..any activity..(not nessarily sports)....especially with teammates...to reach a common goal.
But as a coach I like to have the athletes keep an emphasis on learning and doing good in school...just as you are learning new skills in wrestling to better your chances of competing at a higher level....which in reality..later down on the road is life.

Thanks for the help guys, I feel like my debate went a bit better this year. I'm still not sure if he is going to vote republican or not but I'll keep trying.
Debo's mom you must be careful, Leting your kids get into farming could get you accused of child abuse. Maybe not as much now that corn hit $5 and beans $12, but a few years back I certainly would have turned you in. I know what you mean that your coach isn't happy. My junior is helping me clean out bins and haul fertilizer right after school and his football coach said if he doesn't lift he woun't start next year, so now he's back to getting up at 6:00 and going in before to make the coach happy.
NWI I think you hit the nail on the head when you said some parents are so gung ho into their kids' athletic pursuits that they forget the academic side of things. I'm sure thats what my relative is seeing. The few occations when a parent goes overboard sports make a lasting impression. Sounds to me like most all of us here are in agreement that sports fit well in our attempt to mold our kids into the best people we can. Well better go check the cows, see ya'll latter.

How about having it all - both jock and nerd. Tervel Dlagnev, UNK is a 3X Academic All-American (will likely will be 4X as selections are made later this month). I would dare most anyone to label him as a nerd. He is the best HWT in college today including Div I, a two-time National Champion, 4X All-American and during his "off" season is on the USA Olympic ladder as a very young freestyler.

It also seems to me that there is a high correlation between AA's and Academic AA's. Many of the best are both.

National Champs Also Make the Grade

Lopers Rank 2nd Nationally in GPA; Six on Individual Academic Team



Kearney, Neb. – The Nebraska-Kearney wrestling team once again showed that it is very successful both on and off the mat.

The 2008 NCAA Division II national champions recorded the nation's second highest team grade point average (3.334) for the 2007-08 academic year. UNK's team GPA trailed only Truman State University of Missouri (3.394).

The NCAA Division II Wrestling Coaches Association recently released its 15th annual All-Academic team, as well as the top 15 team GPA's nationally.

A team's GPA is calculated by averaging the GPA averages of ten wrestlers from each team, of which, eight of those wrestlers must have competed in their team's qualifying regional tournament.

In 2004, the Lopers led the nation in team GPA. Last year, the squad ranked sixth.

On the individual All-Academic team, UNK had six representatives. Making the first-team were seniors Tervel Dlagnev (3.08/Biology), Joe Ellenberger (3.58/Industrial Distribution) and Jeff Rutledge (3.58/Health and P.E.), junior Keenan McCurdy (3.62/Elementary Education) and sophomore Ryan Etherton (3.55/Exercise Science).

Finally, junior Paul Sutton (3.11/Exercise Science) was on the second-team.

All six of these wrestlers qualified for the NCAA Division II Championships. Dlagnev (Arlington, Texas) and Rutledge (Lincoln East) are two of only seven individuals to make the team for a fourth time with Ellenberger (Millard South) is one of nine wrestlers on the squad for a third season.



2007-08 Division II All-Academic Wrestling Teams (Top 5)

1. Truman State (Mo.) 3.394

2. UNK 3.334

3. Fort Hays State 3.243

4. Limestone College 3.237

5. Central Missouri 3.236

Contact: Peter Yazvac yazvacpa@unk.edu
Media Relations Director (308) 865-8334
Copyright © 2003-05 University of Nebraska at Kearney

this is cool! More congrats in order for UNK wrestling team! Yes Shrug, a very definite correlation, as you stated.

quote:

Kids want discipline and they want structure.

Hmm.........that is interesting and could create a large debate in itsself.....If that is true all the kids would be beating down the doors to get in the wrestling room and that would be great!!!! Did you mean that they want it but just don't know it???? Not sure many of those kids really exist nowadays, closer to a few here and there.

You are absolutely correct; kids want structure and discipline. Throw in one more thing, acceptance, and you have the basics that have been built into kids for as long as I can remember. I went to a one room country school through 8th grade so my first experience in organized athletics was football as a freshman. How well I remember being handed my equipment. I was just like everybody else. Acceptance. I was a part of a bigger thing and though we weren't all good friends we all had that camaraderie that comes with being on a team. We were accepted.

We had structure. We started practice on time and went through drills in a very orderly structured manner. It was fascinating to me to see how an offensive play meshed when everyone did what he was supposed to do.

We had discipline. If we didn't keep our grades up we couldn't play. If we missed practice without an excuse we couldn't play. If we didn't follow training rules we were dismissed from the team.

Did we like all of these rules? Yes and no. Yes, in that we all had that inner desire for discipline and structure. No, in that we had that societal pressure that we all feel; to complain. So we complained that we didn't like it. Fortunately our coaches were selectively deaf for a while and then they turned on their hearing aids and let us know that if we didn't like it the door that we came in swung both ways. (I was thrilled to read the Omaha World Herald last week with the headline, "It's Pelini's way or the highway".)

What has happened to kids since 1954? Very little. They still want acceptance, structure, and discipline. It may be hidden a little deeper. What has happened? The people in authority have buckled. They have bought into the line of "reasoning" (Ha Ha) that we give everyone the freedom of self expression. If we expect them to follow the rules their egos may be bruised and they won't have self esteem. Scrambler, tell everyone what Bob Siddens would have done if a West Waterloo wrestler took off his warm up jacket to show a tee shirt with a vulgar saying or an advertisement for beer. I know that Bob Siddens' wrestlers have self esteem because he taught them that self esteem comes from doing what is right. It doesn't come from having self expression and disregarding the rules.

I am very proud of Iowa wrestling and Nebraska wrestling because I have invested a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in both. But I must say, I want to throw up when I see Nebraska wrestlers on the medal stand accepting their medals in jeans, tee shirts, caps, etc. I am proud to watch the Grand March in the Iowa state tournament where every coach is notified by IHSAA and those coaches notify their athletes that you will wear your school uniform or warm up in the Grand March and on the medal stand. You will not wear a cap or your headgear. You will not have earphones in your ears. You will be disciplined.

What happens when the authorities give up their responibilities of providing acceptance, structure, and disicipline. In the worse case the gangs fill that role. You will wear a jacket like we all wear. (Acceptance.)

You will do nothing to make anyone think our gang is weak. The gang will back you at all times, provided you follow the rules. (Discipline.)

In order to become a gang member you will knock down an old lady and steal her purse. You will steal a car and crash it into another car, etc. (Structure.)

Even though the gangs are a dead end street and are destroying kids left and right they are giving kids what deep down inside they want. It was very interesting to read the posts on a recent thread that started out asking who is the oldest coach in the state. As people started nominating old coaches they also started to discuss personalities of their coaches and other coaches they knew. Whenever I hear disussions about coaches the words tough and fair were often used together. I've never heard anyway say that their coach was great because he didn't make us follow the rules.

We have a problem with declining numbers in our wrestling programs. I'm not talking about the small schools. If there are 22 boys in school and your contract says that you must let 12 skinny kids play basketball then you are going to have some open weights. But if you have a higher percentage of wrestlers in your program, as compared to the number of kids in school, than a bigger school then you are doing a better job. Something is drastically wrong when we see Class A and B teams with 3-6 open weights. In the posts and conversations about tough coaches and fair coaches, in most cases those coaches have a large number of kids in their programs. Those kids aren't there because they are looking for something easy.

If I have stepped on some toes and hurt your self esteem, TOUGH. Your self esteem will improve by leaps and bounds when you stop doing what is wrong and start doing what is right.

Service to others is the rent we pay for the space we occupy on earth.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank Ryan,

Great Post Frank! Nomination for post of the month? I'll make the motion, any seconds?

I'll second the motion. A great commentary, maybe the medal stand decor could be an issue this group could add to their state tourny ideas.

I remember freshman football after going to a country school also, never did figure what those curved rectangular hard things were for.

quote:

Originally posted by ref:
I remember freshman football after going to a country school also, never did figure what those curved rectangular hard things were for.

Nose guards...


According to what is given every coach at the State Tournament, there are supposed to be no caps and full school warm-ups on the medal stand. They just don't enforce their own rules nor do many of the coaches make sure the wrestlers are properly dressed for the medal presentation.


And great post Frank.

quote:

What has happened to kids since 1954? Very little. They still want acceptance, structure, and discipline. It may be hidden a little deeper. What has happened? The people in authority have buckled. They have bought into the line of "reasoning" (Ha Ha) that we give everyone the freedom of self expression.

That didn't hurt my self esteem and in some ways I can back up most of what you are saying and grew up that way myself. I have a military background but am also keen enough to figure out that the world is ever changing. Ronald Reagan is not coming back anytime soon nor would the world probably accept him at this time which is too bad. Living in the past doesn't change todays kids, you have to find ways to relate and cramming it down their troats will not work. There is a mixture that most of the really good coaches know how to find. The focus needs to be more on the future and finding the positive than trying to live in the past. I respect your opinions but also think the approach could be different although I can see it is intended for the good. Reading your posts only enhances my thinking of the sport and helps me learn a new perspective. If someone holds the secret to societal change that will fix everything they need to get it out but we all know how complex it is and the world doesn't revolve around one's feelings of right and wrong they are only opinions.

quote:

Living in the past doesn't change todays kids, you have to find ways to relate and cramming it down their troats will not work. There is a mixture that most of the really good coaches know how to find. The focus needs to be more on the future and finding the positive than trying to live in the past. I respect your opinions but also think the approach could be different although I can see it is intended for the good. Reading your posts only enhances my thinking of the sport and helps me learn a new perspective. If someone holds the secret to societal change that will fix everything they need to get it out but we all know how complex it is and the world doesn't revolve around one's feelings of right and wrong they are only opinions.

There a couple of points in your post that I would like to address. "Living in the past doesn't change today's kids..........cramming it down their throats will not work".

What's wrong with the past? It produced people who had the courage to leave their old countries and come to America in search of a better life for them and their families. For most of them 'a better life' wasn't having more material things. It was having religious or political freedom or having the right to own a piece of land. They pushed and pulled covered wagons across the prairie for the chance to homestead a small piece of land. They cleared the land by pulling out rocks with their bare hands and cut trees with an ax so they could build their own "castle". They created the Midwest work ethic that most of the rest of the country begrudgingly admits is the best in America. They passed their ideals and principles down to their descendents who beat the Great Depression and defeated tyranny in two world wars.

Then my generation came along and, I am sorry to say, tried to wipe out all of the good the previous generations had done. We created the great slogans like, "God is dead." "If it feels good, do it." "Drugs improve your creativity." "Burn your bra to prove that you are equal to men." (And wear a 36 long when you are 40 years old.)

"The focus needs to be more on the future and finding the positive than trying to live in the past."

I disagree. Throw out the reference to the past and the future and try to find the positive regardless of whether it's thousands of years old (as most of our best principles are) or a new idea hot off the press. If you had a good upbringing look at what your parents did. Did they throw out everything they had learned throughout their lives, or did they act as if it was good for them so it must be good for you until somebody comes along with proof of a better way? I said proof, not a Dr Spock theory. If you didn't have a good upbringing then think back to a friend who did. Would you rather have his formative years or yours?

"If someone holds the secret to societal change........."

It isn't a secret, it's common sense. Quit looking for an easy way to do a tough task. Give you kids, both your begotten or adopted kids, and the kids on your team or under your influence in any way, what they really want; Love, Acceptance, Discipline, and Structure. Too many times I've seen a seventh grade girl go to school with roughly the same amount of make up as the brigade of clowns in the Barnum and Bailey Circus, and a clothing budget slightly larger than the Gross Domestic Product of Lechtenstein. Then, when she's a sophomore and pregnant her mother says, " I can't figure it out. I gave her everything." Sorry Maam, you gave her the things you thought would make you like the All American mother. You didn't give her what she wanted. In fact, you took away a very important thing, the right to be a child. You couldn't stand it that she wasn't the most attractive girl in school so you tried to cover that up up with make up, expensive clothes and jewelry, maybe even plastic surgery. (ACCEPTANCE)

You couldn't tell her that she would conduct herself under these rules........because she might complain to her friends and they would think that you weren't a good mother. (DISCIPLINE)

You didn't tell her that curfew was at ________, that she would not start dating until age ______, and then only double dates, etc. (STRUCTURE)

There are lots of very successful coaches, whose rooms are full of kids and who seldom, if ever, have an open weight. I seriously doubt if those coaches are saying. "Come out for wrestling and I will be your new 'best buddy'. I will look for all of the futuristic psychology trends that will get you what you want without any of that sweat and black eyes that other successful teams give out".
Ironically, when those kids get to be 40 years old most of them will look back at 'old hardnose' and say, "He really was my best buddy. He gave me Love, Acceptance, Discipline, and Structure."

Thank you, John Harris of Corning High School, and thank you, Mom and Dad. You really were my 'best buddies'.

"Rings and jewels aren't gifts. They are apologies for gifts. The only true gift is the gift of self." Ralph Waldo Emerson.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank Ryan,

[QUOTE]

"If someone holds the secret to societal change........." [QUOTE]

[QUOTE]

It isn't a secret, it's common sense. Quit looking for an easy way to do a tough task. [QUOTE]

After I went to bed last night I was thinking about this statement that I had written and realized it really didn't say what I intended for it to say. The old homesteaders knew that if they didn't pull the rocks out the ground (a very tough task) the rocks would break their plowshares and they would not be able to farm the land. So they pulled out rocks with their bare hands because it was all they had available. As time went on they invented machinery that made this backbreaking task a little easier. I applaud them for these ingenious inventions. I applaud them more for the fact that they never wavered from the principle that they had to get the rocks out of the soil.

If I have a chance for a "do over" on my statement it wouldn't say, quit looking for an easy way to do a tough task. It would say, quit trying to eliminate a tough task, that history has proved to be essential, just because it is tough.

Our societal problems didn't begin because the old pioneers found easier ways to pull rocks. They began because the "new agers" decided it wasn't necessary to pull rocks.

"Most classroom semesters and sports seasons have about 100 days of classroom work or practice sessions. If you will improve 1 % in each of those days, by the end of the semester/season you will be 100 % better."

quote:

It isn't a secret, it's common sense. Quit looking for an easy way to do a tough task

Well Frank I am not really sure where you went with this but that is for you to figure out. Rocks and pilgrims and wrestling?????? Common Sense from your statement is purely your opinion. Upbringing is only a piece of it and there are many that have overcame rough starts and wouldn't be here if that is all humanity had to offer and you couldn't learn on your own or make changes to alter a bad start. Someone with all the answers or "common sense" should run for office if that is all it entails. I never stated that being firm wasn't needed but firm 20 years ago is different than todays battle.

Kindest Regards, the rocks and goofy idealism have thrown me out of this thread, agreeing to disagree is just fine with me as I sense that your heart is in the right place in this post but in a much different corner of the earth than mine.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 3/4 Nelson,