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Rookie
Registered: November 30, 2007
Posts: 111
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NEBRASKA SCHOOL ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION
8230 Beechwood Drive
P.O. Box 5447
Lincoln, Nebraska 68505-0447
402-489-0386

TO: Wrestling Officials

FROM: Darin Boysen, Assistant Director

SUBJECT: Potentially Dangerous Situation – NFHS Ruling

DATE: January 24, 2008


As you may have seen or heard, a Nebraska high school wrestler used a back flip - kick to counter a single leg takedown in a varsity match on January 12th in a varsity competition. The video of this match was released to local and national media sources and has been featured on various web sites. This single leg counter has, and is, being demonstrated at college clinics and camps during the off season.

Due to the potential risk of serious injury to both wrestlers, the National Federation has asked that officials stop the match for a potentially dangerous hold if a wrestler attempts this specific counter to a single leg takedown. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to stop the match before or during the back flip – kick counter. If a wrestler attempts this specific counter, the back flip – kick, the match should be stopped with NO points awarded to either wrestler. It can NOT be ruled illegal, but no points shall be awarded to either wrestler.

The coach of this wrestler has been contacted and notified of this ruling.
HB

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Registered: August 27, 2002
Posts: 5536
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Asinine. What's next-outlawing the guillotine or a headlock?
Junior Varsity
Picture of ndb65
Location: pierce, ne
Registered: February 11, 2004
Posts: 736
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It doesnt seem to a very fair ruling to me. I understand they dont want people to get hurt but it still doesnt seem very fair to me.


Guaranteed LOUDEST guy in the gym!!!!

Moderator

Location: Good Ole USA
Registered: October 24, 2002
Posts: 5492
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I agree it's about as stupid as can be, but let's make sure we are calling out who whe should be. It's the National Federation that is asking officials to stop the match as potentially dangerous not the NSAA.


-----------------



"A PEOPLE THAT VALUES ITS PRIVILEGES OVER ITS PRINCIPLES, SOON LOSES BOTH"

EISENHOWER
Novice
Picture of Mr. Pin
Location: omaha
Registered: November 27, 2006
Posts: 252
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I am a dad of a wrestler that had this move executed on him, a former coach and also an official. I think I understand the ruling. The best thing that can happen is neither wrestler gets hurt, and the wrestler that executes this move gets an escape. The worst thing that can happen is the wrestler executing the move lands on his head and becomes paralyzed or worse. The wrestler defending the move can be injured with this move as well. They are trying to prevent this from becoming a move that is copy catted and a wrestler ends up getting seriously hurt because he doesn't have the athletic ability or practice with the move.

That's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Novice
Registered: January 28, 2004
Posts: 382
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Dang it, next I guess I have to tell my tail back during football he can't dive over the pile into the endzone (which he saw on tv) because he may injure himself if he falls on his head or his someone else in the head. The proper way would be to just make the move illegal next year if they're that worried about it. So I suppose next they'll outlaw the other move similar to that in countering the single (we call it kamakazi) where you do a forward roll through the legs of your opponent.

Moderator

Location: Omaha,NE,USA
Registered: October 19, 2002
Posts: 1096
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so basically if ya get in a spot where a kid gets a single on ya and ya cant get out, you go for the free move, hit a backflip and you know that(if the ref is good with the new rules) you will not have any points scored on you.....guarantee this will happen


"It's in the bag coach, it's in the bag."
Junior Varsity
Picture of Radio Man
Location: O'Neill, NE
Registered: November 18, 2005
Posts: 609
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yeah...the way it goes now is that you can still do the move...with all the risk involved...but you can't score with it...you don't get penalized for it...basically all that happens is you get a restart...wow...is that productive...well, at least you still get the glory for doing it.
Rookie
Registered: January 27, 2003
Posts: 90
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As the above two posts indicate, I believe this ruling will lead to *more*, not less, backflips. This ruling is the pinnacle of stupidity. Indeed, it will likely cause more injuries. Please counter this logic if I'm wrong:

Under the previous rule (allowing the backflip), a wrestler who has had little practice with the move is unlikely to attempt it during a match for fear that he may give up points because of poor execution. If he does not attempt the move, there are still several chances for him to escape, if he does attempt it (but poorly) he will likely give up the takedown (and then backpoints or the pin).

Under the new rule (disallowing the backflip ex post facto), a wrestler who has had little practice with the move will be *more* likely to attempt it during a match because there is no chance he will give up points. I'm assuming it's a restart; so no matter what the outcome of his ill-advised attempt at a backflip, the wrestler is in a better position afterwards.

Thus, the incentive created not only fails to prevent attempts from those who would previously have used the backflip, but also *encourages* inexperienced wrestlers to give it a try for the first time in a match situation.

Obviously, in a match situation, a wrestler will likely not go through this sort of structured analysis and arrive at the conclusion that he should attempt a backflip. But (unscrupulous) coaches do think of these things, and wrestlers may simply do a quick "why not?" analysis during the match or at some point before - I know when I was wrestling, I would often think about my reactions to certain possible situations prior to matches.

But criticizing the collossally stupid avenue chosen to regulate the move should be secondary. The primary question should be: why attempt to discourage it at all? It looks dangerous, I guess . . . no further analysis required.
Junior Varsity
Registered: November 05, 2003
Posts: 666
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Are we really surprised by the ruling? I am sad to say am not.
Rookie
Registered: April 21, 2005
Posts: 59
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I agree that this isn't the best call on behalf of the national federation, the move really isn't THAT dangerous.

I'm not quite sure why this particular video garnered so much attention. I've personally seen it happen a few times, even at youth tournaments!
Junior High
Registered: April 26, 2005
Posts: 405
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I support anything that keeps the sport unexciting and that keeps fans away.
Junior High
Picture of PitBullJim
Location: Upright at this time...
Registered: September 16, 2004
Posts: 536
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Hmmmmm...

  • no more chicken wings, shoulders could get hurt
  • no headlocks, someone's neck could feel sore the next day
  • Arm bars... oh no, no way!
  • No throws... that mat isn't soft enough
  • We should make pins illegal... wouldn't want someone's feelings get hurt
JOH
Rookie
Registered: December 05, 2006
Posts: 117
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Is this for real?

All they have done is created an automatic counter for a single leg without the possibility of getting scored on. I bet Boysen's inbox will be full shortly.
Rookie
Picture of Antlerfan
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Registered: November 28, 2007
Posts: 197
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Focus on good wrestling.

Don't give up a single leg takedown.

If you sink a high single leg, FINISH IT!

No flip necessary.
Junior High
Picture of smithjac
Location: central city usa
Registered: February 02, 2004
Posts: 578
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I was thinking the same thing,antlerfan


Jac
JOH
Rookie
Registered: December 05, 2006
Posts: 117
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Antlerfan and smithjac if you don't think there will be more kids using this just to get out of a single leg you are crazy. It is similar to locked hands, the bottom guy has a "free move" only this is better, a kid can get in on a single leg and it won't matter because all the defensive wrestler has to do is attempt a back flip and it is stopped for potentially dangerous and no points can be scored. Mark my words, if they don't change this ruling, there will be more attempts at it than there are now and those attempting it won't have practiced it as much as the kid in the video making it more likely that they get hurt.

Bad, bad situation here.
NWI
World Champion
Picture of NWI
Location: Ogallala NE
Registered: October 20, 2002
Posts: 5158
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I think Pit Bull hit the nail on the head. Let's just sanitize the sport, give everybody a medal, do away with the Walk of Champions (because, after all, everybody is a champion) and take all the fun out of it for everybody.

People who legislate stupidity really need to be tied up, thrown into the trunk of an old Buick, driven to a desolate location somewhere south of Valentine, coated with honey, rolled down a steep embankment and be left for the ants to take over. Sheesh...


"Energy Flows Where Attention Goes" -- James Arthur Ray
Rookie
Picture of ArmBar
Registered: September 03, 2006
Posts: 135
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I tend to agree with Mr. Pin on this one. Just calling the move potentially dangerous without penalty rewards the wrestler attempting it to avoid being taken down (rewarding the passive wrestler). Another solution is to make the move illegal, like a suplex, and penalize the wrestler that attempts it. The penalty could be either 2 pts (the value of a takedown); or maybe a change of position without penalty points - the wrestler attempting the move would be placed in the down position without points being awarded.
Rookie
Picture of ArmBar
Registered: September 03, 2006
Posts: 135
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BTW, while we're making recommendations to rule changes, I think the "scream rule" should be changed. If the referee stops the match during the execution of a legal move for a wrestler asking for an "injury" timeout, penalty points should be automatically awarded depending on the extent of danger the wrestler was in at the time the match was stopped; and perhaps a change in position. For example if a wrestler is getting pinned, the penalty points should be awarded, and if the wrestler decides to continue wrestling after the injury timeout, be placed on his back with one shoulder to the mat.
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