Gone will be the front headlock, cement mixer, and about anything where you touch the head. Wait and see, but it is GONE!

The rules meeting in Chadron was cancelled so I was not able to find out the specific rules that will be applied to the front headlock. Did they show a video? Did they talk specifically on what was legal and what was illegal. To take away the front headlock would be out of line in my opinion. Thanks in advance

The front headlock or any legal headlock will not be disappearing from the sport of wrestling anytime soon. The emphasis on the front headlock this year is due to a situation that happened in the Eastern part of the U.S. last year. A wrestler was purposely perilously choking his opponents with the front headlock. This wrestler was stripped of his state championship and the high school and wrestling coach were disciplined as well. Again, it's a point of emphasis not the elimination of the hold.

I have not been to a rules meeting yet and I have not viewed the video yet, but it doesn't sound good from what I have heard. Though I heard it has not been ruled illegal yet, they expect that it will be next year. It will be interesting if they do make it illegal how will they determine what constitutes a front headlock. An earlier poster said something about not being able to touch the head. How can you avoid touching the head? Will you be able to snap down? Is the cement mixer out all the way or only if both wrestlers are on their feet? This discourages me because I think these are excellent moves. I don't think they are generally dangerous. How many people have been choked out from these situations. I know there have been a few, but think of the number of matches. I think there are other moves which are more dangerous. I think because one jerk was choking people out back east and the refs were inept to do something about it, we are all being denied a legitimate wrestling move. My wrestlers have used these moves over and over and I can't think of one wrestler being choked out. What constitutes a front headlock? Do you have to lock your hands? Can you still do a straight cement job? I will find out more after I have been to the meeting and seen the video.

From what I can see, nothing has changed for the most part, as far as how I am instructing the use of the front headlock. Its seems pretty straight forward on the video, don't lock your hands under the chin and apply upward pressure, don't grab the chin on the c mixer, and don't wrench their neck ever. We grab the far arm on the c mixer, and we try to go to the mat with a good front head lock and look for a throw by or a cradle or a knee tap. Just my $.02

Rick Henry

is the scissors of the body. I've had several good wrestlers "tap out" because they were being squeezed in half. I realize it is a great move going from a grape vine to a power half to turning to scissors, but it really is a power move which has cracked a few ribs and egos. Its one of the few moves I feel needs to be adjusted. I literally had a kid who had the crap squeezed out of him, and that is just wrong. Can't breath, floating rib busted, and loosing some feces all in one move. It's just not what the sport is about, unless tap out moves are going to become illegal. If that is the case I'll pull a few oldy but goodies out of the closet. In the rule book it says that body scissors are legal if they are not used to inflict pain? what does this mean and how many refs call it?

Rick Henry

I have to disagree with the outlawing of the body scissors. If we get rid of every wrestling move that has the potential of injury or causes pain, we don't have much to work with. Realistically, a power half could dislocate a should as could a good hard sprawl. I seperated my ribs on a good ol' regular half. Throws can do a number of things if you land wrong. Granby can cause neck injuries. Guillotine can cause a lot of pain. The list goes on and on. With any sport come risks. We can't really make tackling illegal in football and it causes more injuries than all of wrestling combined. I used the scissors a few times, but never really to try to squeeze some guy into tapping out. I used it most of the time just to pull myself back into position if I was too high, or sometimes when you have a power half on a leg slips out, and wasn't going to just give up the reversal. The only time I was ever put in the scissors was against Simon Boaz who used them a lot and it was pretty tight, but I sucked it up and I think I got a reversal if not a stalemate at least.

Didn't they outlaw a move a few years ago, some kind of a move where the kid was lifted from behind, knee'd in the butt, and dropped to there back or something? I think someone got hurt pretty bad from it, but I can't remember. That move was pretty rough though, I can understand that being illegal, but to outlaw the front headlock, that's just silly. How many move's generate from the front headlock, I'm sure anyone on this board could name 5 off the top of there heads. It's like a starting point for some people's offense, how many times did Meneeley use it to pin someone in that wicked cradle. Just silly in my opinion. Why not outlaw the low single, someone could break an ankle, or a knee you know.

"Are you hurt, or are you injured?"

It is hard to say just what the end result will be with the front head lock buzz. I have seen the NSAA video twice and for the most part it points out the obvious. It shows a wrestler chocking his opponent by lifting him off the mat with the "Front HeadLock". How could anyone not figure that one out, of course that should be illegal. The big danger that I see is that rather than figure out what is and isn't dangerous, some referees might just say everything with the front headlock is illegal. Some referees will stop it and call it potentially dangerous, to make it easier for them. I have seen many good wrestlers use the front head lock with a varity of finishes, and only one time did I ever see a point when I knew it should have been stopped, and it was. A very young wrestler was doing about the same thing as was on the video, trying to lift his opponent off the mat with it. The cement mixer with the hand on the chin is "Not A Neck Wrench" anyone who has worked with it would know that. Rather it is used to hold your body in the correct position as you rotate him with your body. It's not the neck that makes him go. The front head lock is one position that I have spent a great amount time studying. It would be a shame to see it disappear from the legal wrestling moves list. It has set up some of the most exciting moments in wrestling history.

Boys, when you watch the video, and I don't care how many times you do so, the message shouldn't be thought of in terms of high school coaches, rather, the message should be looked at through the eyes of the referee! What message is sent to them, and how will they interpret this message. The real danger here is that the refereeing community will overreact to the move and like my illustrious collegue pointed out so aptly, call it and everything surrounding it "potentially dangerous or illegal." This is a real posibility, and as I visualize some of the referees in our area, I see it as a viable way for the referee to control the match in some sense. It is a gray area at best, and how can you argue the judgement of a referee. I believe the video and the emphasis will alter how we use the front headlock this year

Since most have gone the way of tie ups and front headlocks, there has been a slow down of quality neutral attacks. Over the past few years, more and more kids have been coached to tie and counter. With the front headlick being eliminated, it should be blessed, not cursed. Kids will have to go on the low level attack. Here come more singles, doubles, high crotches and the soon to be resurrected firemans! Now that will lead to more kids getting after it and when a wrestler stalls it will be more obvious! This year should be exciting. Now if potentially dangerous is the call, all that will do is slow down the match! Make it illegal, give points and we will see some real action! I am all for it! Better start spending some time this fall on take downs!!!!!

Taking the Front-Headlock away from High School wrestling would be wrong. If Football had to live under this same system they would be playing two hand touch. I think it is important to remember that wrestling is a "combative" sport. I also think it is important to distinguish between an uncomfortable move and an illegal move. I have watched the video and it looks like for the most part they are covering points most referees already recongnize. I will get in touch with the referees in the western part of the state if Denson and McCurdy can get a hold of the referees in the eastern part of the state. This way we will have some sort of uniformity at the state meet.

I would hate to see such an important move series go by the wayside because of a very limited but high profile misuse of the move. I would argue with Jo Jo, that the front headlock series keeps kids from taking poor and foolish shots. It makes coaches work harder with their athletes and setups. I know we work on setups a lot! Take a bad shot, and you have to pay! Look at the Olympic Freestyle matches.......If that isn't a TON of defense, I don't know what is. Anyway, if the coaches from around the state, talk to and have dialogue with referees, there will be a mutual way of looking at the move series.

This is a great way to bring back some of the scrambling and attacking style of wrestling. With so many coaches working to avoid quality matches so as to protect a wrestlers record for seeding purposes, we need to do more to bring back some action. I would rather see seeding criteria changed so as to force wrestlers to meet during the season. Say if you could throw out 3 loses for the purpose of seeding, then record percentage would not be affected. Kids could go head to head with each other during the season and get a feel for what needs to be worked on prior to the state meet. In addition, if we had these kids wrestling each other during the season, then the district meetings would not be as tough to seed. There would actually be some criteria. It is interesting to see the see how coaches in charge of districts are trying to come up with their version of seeding criteria. To me, this adds to the lack of competition and excitement during the year! Everyone is trying to feel each other out! This goes back to the headlock in that a common thread continues to rear its ugly head, kids are timid on their feet, do not want to face quality opponents during the season and coaches are supporting this in many instances! Lets open it up a bit and create that regular season intensity!

Jo Jo,

You have a lot of great things to say in your last post, but we need to sort them out a little.

The boring match is a little bit of a trickle down effect from Olympic wrestling to College to us. Do you think that the styles above us are wide open with tons of wild and exciting moves? NO WAY. Rules would have to be changed across the board to make wrestling more exciting. Just ask Wade Shalles.

District seeding and the like.......sore subject with me because you have valid points. However, with my team, there is very little chance to duck people. We like to compete for team wins and you can't do that ducking! However, I know that there are those that actively duck to get better seeds and to have better records. It is a fact! I did have a kid, last year, that I feel ducked an opponent by feigning sickness, but I couldn't prove it nor do I condone it.

I agree grapplin that my post got a bit off the subject. I was in a mood to discuss another topic that is a bone of contention, that being the seeding of districts and other tournaments. Having observed your coaching style for many years, I never would imply that your kids duck anyone. There are many though that cannot say this. In my experience ducking someone will almost always come back to bite you on the Asics! The fact that the state meet is not seeded makes ducking someone senseless during the year. If your wrestler is of quality then he should qualify for state even if he does not win his district. There are very few weight classes in which there are 5 great wrestlers in class A. Now in B, C, and D, there is more advantage to battling for a seed at districts, but again not at the expense of kids meeting during the regular season! We should start another post that asks about developing seeding criteria! The NSAA has a very poor description of what really works!

There is a proposal to go to a statewide district seeding criteria. Here is what it is. This has been used in B-1 for a couple of years and works well

Activities Manual: Wrestling Page 12 “Seedings and Pairings” Line 6


Add/Delete/Change the sections/paragraph/sentence as follows:

Change line 6 to Rules for the seeding meeting will be as follows:
1. Head to Head
2. Common Opponent

3. Point systems as follows if steps 1 and 2 don’t shake someone out

1 point returning state qualifier
1 point returning state medalist
.5 point winning % difference 0-5%
1 point winning % difference 5.1-10%
1.5 points winning % difference 10.1% or more

If points are tied draw those tied.
If there are 3 or more people tied in steps 1 and 2 go to point system, after one person shakes out then go back to step 1 head to head.

Draw the byes
Then place losing records by percentage

Jo Jo
Lets just make all wrestling moves potentially dangerous or illegal, Heck I have seen some wrestlers that ought to be label as potentially dangerous or illegal also. Maybe thats why we get the ducking that you are talking about, it's those potentially dangerous wrestlers that awaits them across the mat.

I have not seen a year where I would have any of my kids duck a Kearney kid! There have been some potentially dangerous fellas in HS, but they have failed to appear at the college scene! Just too many issues to overcome!

Sorry didn't mean it the way it sounded, I didn't mean I thought people were running from any of the Bearcat wrestlers. Sorry I have reread it and it did sound that way. I was only atempting a little humor, didn't mean to insult anyone. I probably should stay off the forum, people still love to slam me and my family.