Class A = Creighton Prep
Class B = Lincoln Pius X
Class C1 = Norfolk Catholic
Class C2 = North Platte St. Patricks
Class D1 = Howells - THE ONLY NON-CATHOLIC SCHOOL
Class D2 = Lindsay Holy Family



there are hundered and hundereds of public schools in our state compared to a 50 or so catholic schools and we end up with 5 out of 6 football championships coming from catholic schools....

This is ridiculous and Nebraska should run this like any other state and do the private schools seperate from the public schools...


Any thoughts?

Now that (both of them) is funny!

I found this on another board that backs up my thoughts....


The NSAA has 318 member schools, 28 of which are private. That's 12%.
Looking at the last two completed school years, 2002-2003 and 2003-2004, the NSAA awarded 166 team state championsips. That's in all 18 sports and activites, all classes, and both boys and girls. Of those 166, 43 were won by private schools. That's 26%.
So you could say that 12% of schools are winning 26% of the championships.
Your solution is the NSAA multiplier of 1.35. Meaning a private school's population would be counted as 135% of its actual total. In classes A,B, and C1 (I didn't take time to calculate the smaller classes) this would affect exactly 2 schools: Pius and Scotus. Omaha Skutt, Crieghton Prep, Marion, Grand Island CC, and Wahoo Neumann are among those that would be unaffected.

In Illinois, the parochial schools compete in their own division at tournament time.

As far as wrestling goes...this is kind of interesting -- Catholic schools have won a GRAND TOTAL of 18 state titles in the history of the tournament. Take away Skutt's 7 in a row and Gross' 4-year run in 1993-1996, and Aquinas (4), North Platte St. Pat's (2) and Grand Island Central Catholic (1) are the only private Catholic schools to win state titles.

quote:

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Originally posted by NWI:
In Illinois, the parochial schools compete in their own division at tournament time.

As far as wrestling goes...this is kind of interesting -- Catholic schools have won a GRAND TOTAL of 18 state titles in the history of the tournament. Take away Skutt's 7 in a row and Gross' 4-year run in 1993-1996, and Aquinas (4), North Platte St. Pat's (2) and Grand Island Central Catholic (1) are the only private Catholic schools to win state titles.

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I may be mistaken but i would say there are more states than not that do it this way... and the interesting thing is how Nebraska Private schools take such an underground track at recruiting... and please dont tell me this private schools dont recruit crap because i have friends and relatives that have been recruited to play baseball or football...

but my question is why is it in such an underground manner? Why not be like every other state and be more open about the recruiting so theres not so many people forced to keep their heads in the sand...

personally i think its because the private schools all still want to compete with public schools because theres just not enough private schools to do this with only 28

And consider that the disparity in enrollment between Lindsay Holy Family and Creighton Prep, which would obviously make it impossible to have a "parochial only" division.

It's been a long-running argument, and I maintain that there are rules NOW IN PLACE with the NSAA, and if somebody has evidence of this recruiting, whether underground or otherwise, it needs to be turned over by your school to the NSAA for consideration.

At that point, it puts the NSAA's reputation at stake on whether or not they continue to allow this to go on or are willing to bite the bullet and penalize those that are breaking the rule on recruiting.

In the meantime, the best way to beat the Prep football, Columbus Scotus volleyball or Omaha Skutt wrestling programs is by doing it in between the lines. And if you look at 2 of those 3 teams...they HAVE been beaten (although, in Scotus' case, it WAS by another private school).

Do the rules for recruiting apply to Private schools?

If they are members of the NSAA, they certainly do. Otherwise they would not be able to compete against public schools, much less compete in state tournaments.

Howells has one 5 straight state football titles, so they must be recruiting too. Or it could be that they have a good coach, good program, and play disciplined team football like a lot of the private schools you see at the top year in and year out. I also heard the Democrats have lost the last two presidential elections, so maybe in 2008 every registered Democrat should count as 1.35 people just to even things out a bit. Also, I think in college sports the defending champion should have to play with one less person to make it a little more fair. Barry Bonds and Albert Pujols should wear blindfolds next season, LeBron shouldn't get to wear shoes, and Peyton Manning can only throw it with his left hand because they have all been doing far too well.

I don't understand why people have to say Catholic schools recruit when they win. We never heard about Howells or Kearney recruiting and they are always quite successful. Colby Wissel transfered from Elm Creek to Kearney to run track and CC and no one said anything. Andy Birkel went to Lincoln Southeast to play football and no one said anything about that either. I am pretty sure he is Catholic too so if Catholic schools recruit so heavily why didn't he end up at Pius X? I hear a lot of people say I know this guy that was recruited, but I never hear names, I never hear anyone say they recruited me, and I never see proof of any kind. Sounds like a lot of hearsay to me, which doesn't hold up that well in court.

I was also wondering if you wanted any of the football games. If you saw the C-2 game between Stanton and St. Patrick's you would have noticed that Stanton's athletes were probably better. In a town the size of North Platte if that is the biggest, fastest, and strongest they could recruit I don't know how North Platte would have won a game. You might also notice that a lot more of your big name athletes that go on to college are from the public schools not the Catholic schools, so if Catholic schools are recruiting the top athletes they are obviously not doing a very good job. Finally, if you haver ever been around Lindsay and Humphrey I was just wondering where they were recruiting these kids from because last time I checked it isn't the most densely populated area.

Ok now keep in mind about 8.8% of the schools in the state are private...

and NSAA has awarded 166 state championships and 43 of those were won by private schools...
25.9% hmmmm so 1/12 of the schools are winning 1/4 of the state championships?

and again, you can't tell me there isnt any type of recruiting going on... and when i say recruiting, im not saying all out free tuition and such... but just a coach calling a kid up and saying you should come here look how good our wrestling team is now or whatever... but when less than 1/10th of the schools are winning 1 in every 4 state championships you know there is something going on

I can tell you that I went to Aquinas where we have won 3 of the last 4 state wrestling titles in Class C and been in the top 10 for 11 or more years in a row I think and we are doing it without recruiting. We made the finals 4 times in the 90s without recruiting. We had a dominant track team last year without recruiting. We won a basketball title (with 4 starters 6-1 or shorter if I remember correctly) without recruiting. In fact, most of our students had parents that went to Aquinas as well. I'm sure it is the same for every other small town Catholic school. You build with what you have. As far as the big town schools, it is the same as with the public schools. With open enrollment the kids pick where they want to go and that is usually the most successful program. Remember in the last 10 years Kearney has won 100% of the track titles and they are only less than .5% of the schools

well who knows, maybe its just because private schools can hire Coaches and not just teachers that can coach.... but I know for a fact there is recruiting going on in some private schools

If your so positive that catholic schools are recruiting get off your butt and do something about it!

By the way did it ever occur to you that kids want to go somewhere because they can be part of a winning tradition? If you were in the Skutt area, and you had the chance to go to say Millard West or Skutt as a wrestler where would you choose? Who cares if you may only be a mediocer wrestler. You can say your part of a winning tradition! The only recruiting being done is not done by coaches or school officials. It is done by athletes winning and building a winning tradition!

Again, I point to the start of the Skutt program and the positive words of encouragement every coach gave Brad Hildebrandt and his team to keep working and they will get better. After they started winning state titles, some of those same coaches that were patting Brad and RJ on the back are now trying to stab them in the same spot.

Talking to a kid about coming to a program is not recruiting, if you look at the NSAA's definition of recruiting. I could make a phone call to Matt Vacanti's house right now and encourage him to take a look at this program or that, and that isn't recruiting. Now if I were to say, "Matt, I'll pay your tuition if you transfer to Omaha Skutt for your junior and senior years..." -- THAT is recruiting.

Any coach can talk to any player about taking a look at his school's program, and there is no violation (besides, the First Amendment would basically render the recruiting rule dead if a coach were reprimanded for simply talking to a kid).

There are two ways to handle those schools who are violating the NSAA bylaws regarding the recruitment of student athletes. To refresh your memory, they are as follows:

1. Gather evidence that Coach So-And-So recruited Joe Blow to wrestle (play football, basketball, etc.) at his school and report this information to the NSAA.

2. Quit whining about what other teams are doing and worry about making your own house better than theirs. Get better in the practice room and beat them on the mat when the time comes.

If a short, balding, slightly overweight sportswriter can figure that out...it can't be all that difficult. Can it?

no no no

Coaches can get in trouble for as much as hinting he wants a kid to there school...

and 1.as far as me getting off my ass and doing somethin about it... im just an 18 year old kid with no respect as far as journalism or public voice....

and 2. Honestly it makes no difference to me wether private schools recruit or not or wrestle in the same division as public schools but it sure is a fun debate wouldn't ya say?

I think Catholic schools have some inherent advantages. First, they probably get a better quality student since they can be selective in who they admit. Public schools do not have the ability to screen out troublemakers, delinquents, etc. Because there is usually tuition to be paid, their families might be more likely to have the financial resources to afford camps, travel, equipment, etc. that are helpful in athlectic development. I'm not trying to imply that all Catholic schools families are rich and public school families are poor because that of course is not true. But on average I would guess that families that send kids to private schools have more money.

NWI says that merely talking to a student is not recruiting as long as no benefits (e.g., tuition) are offered. Perhaps not in the NSAA rulebook, but to me talking to a student about joining a program is recruiting. College coaches recruit all the time without actually offering scholarships. For example, I was recruited to Nebraska to play football as a walk-on and I was "talking" other schools when they didn't know for sure if scholarships would be available. I would call that recruiting even though no benefits were offered. You can be sure intangible benefits were mentioned such as bowl games, tradition, quality of education, popularity, etc.

Regarding Skutt, Dylan Wheaton is from Tekamah and he was recruited to Skutt during junior high. That is quite a drive every day to a wealthy west Omaha private school for a modest rural family. I'm not sure if his family is even Catholic. I believe he went because he felt he had a better opportunity to get a college wrestling scholarship at Skutt because of their coaching, competition, and tradition. I do not blame him one bit and it appears to have paid off with his commitment to UNO. There is nothing wrong with how that.

Mike, your assumption that anybody calling an athlete and talking him/her into changing schools being legal is false.

NSAA Bylaw 2.8.2.7 states that undue influence includes, but is not limited to:
"Any attempt by a representative of a school or any individual or group outside the school to recruit a student(s) in order to gain his/her services in the school's activity program."

Calling a student and talking to him/her about transferring is not legal according to NSAA bylaws. It doesn't matter if you don't offer the student anything, trying to influence them IN ANY WAY IS ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by NWI is Incorrect:
Mike, your assumption that anybody calling an athlete and talking him/her into changing schools being legal is false.

NSAA Bylaw 2.8.2.7 states that undue influence includes, but is not limited to:
"Any attempt by a representative of a school or any individual or group outside the school to recruit a student(s) in order to gain his/her services in the school's activity program."

Calling a student and talking to him/her about transferring is not legal according to NSAA bylaws. It doesn't matter if you don't offer the student anything, trying to influence them IN ANY WAY IS ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL!!!

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haha thx i would have had no clue where to look that up...


And i realize that wrestlers many times will choose to go to Skutt just because of better oppurtunities (e.g. McKim, His brother went to Valley) but I do know that private schools do contact athletes (not necessarily skutt) and remind them of the oppurtunities of going to a private school....

99% of people confuse the word "recruiting" as an illegal term. There is a difference between recruiting and illegal recruiting.

Technically every student in catholic schools is recruited. That's right every kid is recruited. How else would they end up at a private school if they were not "recruited" in some way? Catholic schools actually have paid staff members in charge of recruiting students.

In fact, Chris Blair actually held that position at Gross when he was coaching there.

Get used to it folks, it's not going to change.