I was impressed with the way Jay handled the loss. I've seen him when he didn't act so gracious. It was a very tough match, got to give them both a lot of credit.

not to belabor the issue......Brett Gray is a great wrestler. Congrats to him and a job well done. Jay gave up two penalty points that costs him. The first was for a figure 4 to the body. The second was for the figure 4 to the head from the neutral position. I felt since it included the arm it wasn't a violation. Regardless of my interpetation, after the call was made, a veteran official from the next mat approached me and said he clearly observed Grey reach up and moved Jay's legs from a draping position into the figure 4 creating the violation. He advised it wasn't a violation if the other wrestler created the illegal position and that it could be vioation against that wrestler. I asked the veteran ref to advise the mat ref........knowing that wasn't going to happen.

I didn't see what happened, but none the less, the bottom line is sometimes you get the calls.....sometimes you don't. Jay didn't. That's the way it goes.

I'm not displeased with the officiating. I think the guys did a great job. It just shows that some pay closer attention to detail than others. Like in many things in life, we're all human and we all look at things differently. I know they did their best.

I agree, the sportsmanship shown was very classy, however the "veteran" official is wrong, wrong in what he saw, and wrong for what he said, and again taking nothing from either wrestler the match was very good. But nobody, not even the "veteran" official had a better look the the Mat Official, OR the Assistant Ref, I saw the Mat Official ask the Assistant, and BOTH agreed on the call. They both had a better view than anyone from another Mat.

I think he is only 'wrong' because he was not in the authoritative position of being on the mat or was evidently not head of the officials. That being said, Xofficial; what is the explanation of the event that caused the 2 mat officials of the Ashmore/Cejudo finals match to agree to award a takedown to Ashmore only to be showered with thunderous crowd disbelief that resulted in a conference with head of officials and then evidently agreement to remove the points awarded? Just curious, as both were on the mat and in agreement it seemed.

[This message was edited by TK on March 15, 2004 at 07:25 PM.]

The call was made by the official that a takedown had occured, he then called a stalemate which gave him the opportunity to check with the assistant who disagreed with the takedown and the points were voided. This is exactly the way the official and his assistant should work.
The 'veteran' official in the other case, asked the official who had made the call and was told the defensive wrestler had not placed the legs in that position and that Sherer had. The veteran official then agreed with the call that had been made.

Ref, in the Ashmore/Cejudo match; when official and assistant were not in agreement then head official was consulted. What is the procedure at this point?

The system worked exactly as it should have on that takedown, a veteran official who is not too proud will always ask in an unclear situation, he can agree with the assistant, or disagree with the assistant and let his call stand. That coach,( who was completely within his rights to ask for that conference), was told exactly the same thing that has been said here on this forum, that that is the way the system is supposed to work. Instead of causing a huge furor the prudent thing to do is defer to the highest source, as long as procedure has been followed there is nothing that anyone has to worry about. If the aim is to make sure that right call is made, then a good official will ask for help when needed. The problem with ANY other Official making comments like that is that he has to realize that others are asking about some of his calls too, how would he want his peers to respond? No Ref is perfect, the nature of the job is that every call will be scrutinized. As I said earlier, the majority of the comments all weekend were positive, every Official there did a very good job. The reality is that you could have had the 12 best Refs in the country there and there would STILL have been controversy. My hat is off to every Official who worked the Tourney, on the whole a very good job was turned in by all.

Just to clear me up, sorry for being dense. Official makes the call that it is a takedown and awards the 2. Crowd loudly disagrees. Official and assistant confer, assistant must have then disagreed, then they consult head of officials. Takedown 2 is then disallowed. You are saying that the official could have decided to agree with objection of assistant. However, since a conference with head of officials occurred, was another means or procedure invoked to reach the decision?

The head official was only consulted upon request by the coach whose kid had been awarded the points then had the takedown reversed. He thought that one of the officials on the sidelines had made the call. The head official informed the coach that the official and his assistant had reversed the takedown points and used the correct procedure. The coach agreed, and that was the end of the situation--until the forum got a hold of it. The correct procedure was followed by the officials on the mat, the head official, and the coach.

Take the crowd out of your question, no Official can be absolutely certain of every single call he makes,there is always room for doubt, especially in tight matches, hard fought scrambles...and things that happen very quickly...or even at the end of a grueling two day tourney when they are all weary but still wanting to the best for everyone concerned. Wrestlers, fans...coaches, and even themselves. Fatigue, strain, all of it plays into what is happening.....so when one makes a call, especially a borderline call, would it be best to just let it go...or ask the man who is there to assist when he is needed, his assistant Ref. The better Official will always ask for help when he is unsure. As to why was the Head Ref brought into it, again, why not? A call was made, right or wrong, it was made. The proper procedure was followed in what occurred afterward, the coach who was losing the points has every right to appeal up the chain of command, again only an arrogant Official who can never accept the fact that he might be wrong would be afraid to allow it, but thats why there IS a Head Official, for those types of circumstances. The Coach has the right to appeal, or protest if you will. The crowd has nothing to do with it, its the same as when a coach is screaming for a stalling call, aand then the Ref makes the call. Did he influence it, no. Fact is...the louder a coach screams, the less likely he will get a call, its human nature. The corwd had nothing to do with it.

Another nebraska wrestler that was left off the list is Don Frizzell. He got 2nd in the sophomore 215lb bracket. He beat Aaron Terry in the semis.

Where is Frizzell from?

You're focusing only on the adjectives that clearly described the moment of that one match. Sorry, I need to improve my presentation.
I will remove all other language in order to zero in on my real question; What is the procedure when official and assistant official do not agree? How is a decision reached and rendered at that point?

The official on the mat will make the decision, he has the option of agreeing with the assistant or disagreeing.
The head official (if there is one) can assist them in making their decision.

Don Frizzell is from Scribner Snyder.