All seriousness aside, Hawk, that might be one of the only good reasons to keep the tournament in Lincoln. Val's pizza AND Fairbury hot dogs beat the heck out of anything Qwest has for concessions.

I can't tell you how many years I've lived off those things and free pop in the press room at the state tournament...nor could I tell you how much it played a role in the set of triplets I'm carrying in my gut right now.

I was always on the fence like you are until this year. I walked my handicapped cousin through a mile of mud because there were no handicapped stalls left to park in. Now his situation is a bit different but I imagined what would have happened to the individual in a wheelchair that came down to watch the tournament and didn't have someone to drop him off. The parking attendants outside simply shrugged their shoulders and said "sorry nothing we can do." Imagine a guy rolling his wheelchair through the fairground lots in rain and snow. Not a pretty picture is it? The dirt lots around the fairgrounds are terrible and we're lucky it wasn't really nasty this year as it has been in the past. Why should people have to deal with that anymore than purchasing a bad overpriced hot dog? When you add up safety concerns (because wrestling today is faster and kids wrestle on the edge of the mat more), capacity issues (if we can get 1000-2000 more people in isn't that worth the move alone?) on top of the jacked up parking problems, I would say it's definitely time for a move. The event has simply outgrown the facility and right now there's no other alternative in Lincoln. In 4-5 years when Lincoln builds a new arena that fixes these problems, I'll be the first one to say move it back.

Well factor in these cost HB, we have a hotel in Lincoln and hotel in Omaha both lined up. The Lincoln hotel will cost us $63 per room while the Omaha hotel will cost $99 per room. We have 8 rooms for wrestlers and coaches and that comes to an additional $254. I am not going to get a hotel 1/2 way across Omaha and get stuck in there traffic and miss weigh ins. At Devaney 90% of the hotels are within 5 minutes of easy driving not crazy Omaha rush hour traffic. Maybe the additional $254 is not much to you, but it is to our cash strapped school district. Just my 2 cents.

You must not have looked very hard for an inexpensive motel Bulldog as we stayed in a Super 8 not 4 minutes up Abbot Drive from the Qwest Center after the Big XII Tournament for $58.00 per night. There are plenty of motels within a short drive of the Qwest Center that are reasonably priced.

8 rooms for wrestlers and coaches??? You expect to take 32 wrestlers and coaches to the State Tournament?

I also doubt that 90% of the motels in Lincoln are "within 5 minutes of easy driving".

We here in the Midwest are notoriously resistant to change. We are all used to the "Tradition" of Devaney etc. etc. etc. My hope is that a new tradition is started at the Qwest Center in 2006.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Red Rocker,

I had worked in downtown Omaha for several years in the past. Rarely did it take me more than 20 minutes to get there from West Omaha and never that I can recall did it take more than 30 minutes. And that was during the construction days of I-80. Now there are many more lanes and less congestion.

You can easily find a reasonable hotel within 20 minutes of the Qwest Center. People outside of Omaha have a misunderstanding of Omaha rush hour traffic as some big mess like you see on TV of Los Angeles. It is simply not true.

Plan ahead and leave early until you get used to the route. You should not be cutting it that close anyway for weigh ins. A bad accident can happen in Lincoln also and make you late if you cut it too close.

This is Brock smith again another reason i would like it to be in lincoln is that lincoln is far away from this part of the state and its tough to travel that far as is but i dont minde that but omaha is even farther away from us and gas is so high its going to cost alot just to get there

Brock

Lincoln traffic is worse than Omaha traffic especially with the work they have going on right now. Trust me, I went to school in Lincoln for 4 1/2 years and drive in Omaha every day. There are so many hotels that are in the moderate price range that are the same distance from Qwest as those same hotels would be from Devaney. Just a quick look online and I found Sleep Inn, Comfort Inn, Super 8 etc. If you're very worried about costs you can even take the 2 minute drive across the bridge into Council Bluffs and find more hotels. I do have to admit the missing weigh ins is one I haven't heard before. I remember during state, our coach purposely got hotel rooms out near 70th and Cornhusker so that we would avoid any distractions. Change always meets relutance at first but it certainly outweighs the negatives associated with trying to continue to hold the tournament in a venue that it's simply outgrown. Are you an advocate of splitting up the tournament so we move Classes C and D to the Pershing auditorium for Friday night semi-finals while A & B are held at Devaney? That's what Lincoln proposed one more time today as their solution to the overcrowding. If they're going to do that, why not just hold Classes C and D out in Kearney since the majority of schools are located in that area.

I have kept quiet on this issue to this point, but I was thinking about it today and decided maybe I should throw my opinion into the mix for a couple of reasons. First of all, being from neither Lincoln or Omaha, I do not favor one over the other at all. Second, I am one of only a few that has been to the state tournament within the last 5 years as a coach, competitor, and spectator.

Wrestler's Perspective:
One of the issues I have heard a lot about lately is the safety of the wrestlers and I would have to agree with the NSAA on this one. I do not feel the Devaney is endangering our wrestlers any more than any other place would. Over the years I have not seen very many wrestlers go crashing into walls, tables, or chairs at the Devaney Center. Also, I would like to point out that I have seen it happen a lot throughout the season at other tournaments. A wrestler that is good enough to make it to the state tournament should be able to control his body enough to not take one of these things unprotected at least unless forced there by an opponent, in which case it should not happen and the gym floor is going to be just as hard as far as I'm concerned. I was also taught and try to pass on to my wrestlers that they should be wrestling in the center of the mat, so the smaller area/spacers taken out does not bother me. Most of us have to do it at our home invites as well. Between the ref, coaches, and just being a good guy and stopping an opponent from crashing down we should be able to keep the kids out of harms way.

Finding enough space to warm up and shower after was not a concern for me. I always had plenty of room to warm up and going in there this year I saw plenty of open mat room. I never had to wait to take a shower, so I don't think that is a concern either. Also, having the wrestling room, weigh ins, and locker rooms all together right by the floor was nice. If you can remember a few years ago we actually did have a separate place to weigh in (on year by the track and another year in a locker room up some stairs by the track) so there is room to weigh in other places. They just must prefer to do it all in the same place.

Spectator perspective:
I was a spectator at the Big 12 wrestling tournament held at the Qwest Center and I was not impressed. I went into that tournament thinking the Qwest Center would be a great place to hold state wrestling, but after that day I didn't see that many advantages. First, we get there and of course had to pay for parking. My question is if the parking does run out then what? There does not seem to be any smaller lots that could be used like you can find all over the state fair grounds. Then we go to take our seats which are crammed together and made my knees hurt for the rest of the day. I shelled out about $15 for food for one person alone (although I do have a pretty healthy appetite but $5 for nachoes?!?! Come on!) When the break time came trying to get out was a disaster. I do not like to fight a crowd especially when trying to stay together and having less doors and a much narrower area to walk around the arena it made it not very much fun (except maybe the bumping into the pretty Okie State girl until I realized it was the girlfriend of one of their wrestlers. Yikes! Those guys would kill me)

Now seating is only a problem in the Devaney Center on Friday night and Saturday. I think every school this year was given at least some tickets correct? Well, not everyone's kids are still wrestling at this time, so why not pass tickets around and make sure family of wrestlers are at least getting in. Make the high schoolers stand outside and try their luck. They are young and strong. They can take it.

Coach perspective:
As a coach Devaney is just fine. One concern I do have about the Qwest Center is do they plan on pulling out bleachers for coaches and do they count that as floor space? Does Devaney count what is under the bleachers as floor space? Are they both or neither counting these seats in their seating capacity? If there is going to be no where for coaches to sit I don't care how much space there is. I would like to be able to watch some matches.

Final Thoughts:
I wrote out this big closing, but I decided the whole thing can be summed up in one sentence. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Red Rocker we have rooms next year for 4 coaches and administrators and no I don't expect to take 32 wrestlers but we reserve more than we can use then let them go. We stay at the Comfort INN in Lincoln and we can be to Devaney in 5 minutes, any hotels at the Airport or on Cornhusker or North 27th street are within 5-10 minutes of Devaney. As far as someones suggestion about hotels in Omaha I for one am not completely familiar with Omaha and I am not going to drive 4 hours to see the layout 100% to find a cheap hotel that I won't have to fight traffic and noone in there right mind can tell me that I-80 traffic at 6:30 in the morning is easier to drive than driving on Cornhusker highway at 6:30. It is right in the proposal of average hotel cost $63 for Lincoln and $78 in Omaha. What are the Omaha hotels $15 nicer than Lincoln if not your Chamber needs to crack the whip. Everyone keeps saying we will have more fans, well those extra fans will be from Omaha not the rest of the state. I have had many people tell me that have gone and supported us at State over the years that they would no longer go to state if it moves to Omaha because they are afraid of driving there. And before anyone blast me yes I know state track is there, but not very many people from outstate drive to Omaha for that unless they have a relative involved. HB yes weigh-ins are a concern to me, I would bet you that over 3/4 of the wrestling coaches in the state have no idea where the Qwest center is let alone how to get there. If it goes to Omaha so be it, but don't expect outstate Nebraska to support it like they do in Lincoln because it isn't going to happen.

Come on Monarch man......ain't broken??????? You can't be a DCA alum and say such a thing. Let me go through a few of the more illustrious "Ain't Broke" items:

1. How about overlapping mats. Tell me how many kids have tripped going out of bounds or how many calls have had to be made by referees because of this?

2. I did a survey of all the surrounding states (on behalf of Omaha) and not one of our sister states is in violation of the federation guidelines........except Nebraska. Check this out Monarch. If you can't meet the guidelines for the Federation, NSAA folks won't let you host a district (if they know about it in advance).

3. I have witnessed referees having to call matches with a circle within a circle - like freestyle - because of the potential for banging into stuff. Two years ago, I had a state champion who crashed into the scoring table and got a concussion. This could have ended his state tournament (lucky it didn't).

4. Monarch, have you ever been a coach on the floor during semi action? Where do you sit? There's nowhere for coaches and athletes to sit to watch the action. Well, I take that back, you can have one of the few seats on the South side or you can sit in Nose Bleed section? And only two coaches......this does a disservice to people who have more than two coaches. Qwest will seat all athletes and coaches on the main floor!

5. You like that warmup area? Qwest has three to four times the warmup area for athletes. You won't even have to track through trash, equipment, clothing, etc. to warm up because of the 7 available locker rooms at Qwest.

6. Weigh in area....not broken? Well, again, Qwest can make this something that is spacious and workable.

I am going to rest now, but I can go on and on. Yeah, you might pay a little more for a hotdog, but then again, I am looking at coaches and athletes. Devaney simply cannot handle this grand event.

Not free parking!!! Omaha gave 300 stahls and not 1 more, that is for NSAA, officals, and workers, and schools, so in other words free for first session and pay for second. (the fine print Mikey)

Well I really do not want to sound as if I am agianst the tournament moving from Lincoln (where I live) but at the same time it seems that alot (notice I said alot) of the folks wanting the move to take place are from the Omaha area. I understand all the arguments being made on safety, parking, seating, etc. But to that point there are several things to keep in mind (nothing new) travel to Omaha from say Sidney, Scotts Bluff, Chadron, or any other western school is not only a matter of extra time but also fuel costs (vans and buses are not real comfortable or fuel efficent) also there is THE perception of Big Bad Omaha and its traffic. I agree that Lincoln has just as much or more congestion at times and with the construction going on things were worse this year (no one likes change remember) well that is exactly what is happening the city is growing and things have to change to accomodate those changes. What they are doing is flood control and enhancing our city to provide green space and adding retail areas.
Ross to the point that you had to walk Neil "a mile thru a mile of mud" I know you were exagerraiting there because there is no way anyone walks a mile unless you came from campus. While I cannot completely walk in your shoes I not only sympathize with you but I also can relate some what. My parents (both above 80) drive to Lincoln for lots of different events from the central part of the state (scares the crap out of me every time) both of them have very poor eyesite, dad is legally blind in 1 eye and has had both knees replaced, mom is diabetic and is suffering from maculardegeneration (she uses binoculars to watch matches even in a highschool gym). They found parking and got in by themselves, luckily we were the early sessions. I would hate to see them or some one in a similar situation have to negoiate downtown Omaha. The point here is that people are familar with the UNL campus and State Fair Park so safety for those attending should also be taken in to consideration.
As far as the parking lot attendands shrugging their shoulders this could happen anywhere you may go, and I would have probably went to the gaurd shack or made a call to the UNL police department and asked if you could not have parked in the booster lots on either side of Devaney. I would think an exception would have been made given the circumstances.

To the point of more seating available, yes there are more seats at Qwest. I also attended the Big 12's. The seats are nice, with the cup holders and all but they are very close together not only side to side but there is absoloutley NO LEG ROOM. We actually got up and moved because of the clostrophobic situation we were in and because after an hour the 3 grown mens knees were killing us. I am 5'7" and I can tell you when some one came out of the isle we could not turn sideways (like I can at the BOB) and let them pass we would have to stand. Can you imagine a whole row of people standing in front of you during your sons match Friday night.
To the issue of gaining entrance, at the Big 12's anyway the situation of getting up to the arena was not the best and there were not 12,000 people wanting to get the best seats. If my memory serves me correctly there are 2 escalotors and 1 set of stairs going up to a set of 6 or 8 fenced off turnstlyes (and 1 elevator for the handicapped, elderly, or wheelchair bound). Can you imagine the saving of seats crisis this will lead to. The waiting area inside by the ticket windows was adequate and if they allow you to stand inside wating for the turnstyles to open they will have to allow people to stand going towards the north. This will create mass confusion with those that maybe showed up later or decided to stand outside (much straighter shot up those escaltors than having to go around the corner north). The concourse area seemed smaller at Qwest than at Devaney and there were no way near the people at the Big 12's than at State.
I did some asking around of attendants about the entrance on the south side that lead right out to the street level and was told that was used for RE-Entry ONLY. There are no turnstyles positioned there so I would have to conclude this is for Re-Enrty only.
As to the warm up area, I did see the exspansive area at Qwest and it would infact be an asset, there was plenty of room for mats and also for jogging which is not a possilbilty in the wrestling room. I did get the opportunity to go into the warm up area though this year as I was allowed into the training area due to the injury that was being treated. It did not seem like there was a ton of guys bumping into one another while warming up and my son was in the lower weights.
The warm up area at Qwest was quite close to the mats on the floor and it seems logical that the congestion leading onto the mats would be greatly decreased as you could probably drive a semi thru those openings.
Safety of wrestlers is THE MAIN CONCERN for me. I have attended numerous tournaments at the Bob and can only recall 3 incidents in 30 plus years where some one could not continue after going into the bleachers or a table(1 is to many). Everyone there including the wrestlers know the tight quarters they are dealing with and seem to deal with it quite well. I know of one gym we attended that has a stage and a metal railing to seperate one mat from the main floor that probably is not the safest condition either. And I am sure there are many other gyms that would qualify as not the safest situation either.
On to another safety issue. We had a UNL wrestler traveling with us to help out with warming guys up, and helping with other tasks which included the rolling up of the mats. They had the mats elevated off the floor-basketball court. Well under that court is the ice sheet for the hockey team to play on. Lets think about the amount of time the mats were in place for the Big 12's versues the state tournament. They probably put them down on Friday night and pulled one of them up (after semis) on Saturday night. Where as they will place them on Weds. night and not pull any of them until late morning on Sat. The wrestler that was with us told us that the bottom of the mat was FROZE and was very difficult to roll up. What is going to happen with those mats when they are left there for 3 1/2 days versues 1 day. Talk about a safety issue there is one for you. I cannot imagine them removing the ice for those days during hockey season. Now for those that say removing the ice is not big deal. I have seen what it takes to do the ice at the Ice Box in Lincoln and at best it is a 3 day process. The exspense to remove-melt it and then put it back would be huge and I do know a little something about cooling things off so do not even start up that one. We did the cooling system at the Ice Box.
I hope I have shed some light on the pros and cons of moving it and keeping it here.
I again will support the city and the facility where ever it is held, and to that end my son has wreslted his last match in a state tournament but we will still be attending for many years to come WHERE EVER it is held.

Change elevations and good things happen!

Hey Cyotte...I don't know if you were at the BOC meeting Thursday, but I was there and have both the Lincoln and Omaha proposals right in front of me. At the meeting, the parking for school vans was addressed, and concern was raised that the 307 (not 300) stalls the OSC was going to make available may not be able to cover the needs of the schools, NSAA, refs and media. So guess what? They are, in all likelihood, going to have more available.

Also, there are over 3,700 parking spaces available, with many more a short walk away from the main parking area. There is also shuttle service from a number of the motels that the OSC has been able to line up through their work with the area lodging organizations.

That's the fine print in a nutshell. You're welcome to copies of both reports if you'd like. See you at the meeting this afternoon???

And to address another issue mentioned earlier...driving in Omaha, even during the busiest part of the day, runs circles around driving in Lincoln. The main traffic areas can be managed with little trouble if you use common sense. Depending on which hotel you're staying at, you can be at the Qwest Center in 30 minutes or less. Even if you stayed at the Super 8 on Interstate 80 at the Gretna exit, you're only about 30-35 minutes away from the Qwest Center.

Driving in Lincoln, on the other hand, reminds me of a line in an old Police song...trapped like lemmings, contestants in a suicidal race. In all honesty, I'd rather drive on Dodge Street in rush hour traffic on a Friday afternoon than at any time, day or night, in downtown Lincoln.

It's much safer that way.

So what time do they actually vote?

I would have to agree with traffic.
We leave our hotel in lincoln at 5pm on Friday night. It is about 5 minutes away. Well, we don't actually get into Devaney until about 5:30, and we have to park quite a long way away.
So traffic in Lincoln is pretty bad...how does Omaha compare, I can't say.
I can remember when we used to lodge south of Devaney and had to wait for a train one year, that almost made us late. That was the last time we stayed south of Devaney.

However, to say that Devaney can't handle the event isn't quite right either Mr. Denson. It has handled it pretty well I think, for several years. Changes have been made to address concerns with space, overlapping mats etc.
Is it the best? No. But it handles it.

I just think that most of us pass off or ignore everyone else's concerns. If we are going to make this event work for everyone, WHICH IT SHOULD, because it is still a high school event, not a big time event, then we should take into consideration everyones circumstances.

I have a concern with ticketmaster handling tickets. How much is the price going to go up, and not just because of the $2 charge. Also, will it continue to be a random draw? or first come first served?
This will definitely favor omaha area schools.

And yes, $3 vals and runza I always thought was a ripoff, but eventually, the price at the store almost caught up, so it really wasn't that bad. And again, it really was a runza or vals, not a hot dog. I don't usually drink pop, so I don't have a clue what those cost. I know that they have gyros at qwest which I like, but the price was $4? or something like that.

I have a concern with where we (coaches and wrestlers) are going to sit. At NCAA in St louis, there was no seating for coaches and wrestlers until the later rounds. I don't want to have to stand off in the warm up rooms waiting. I want to watch the action. Is there going to be a place to sit?

Friday, I have been there. I have never had a problem finding a seat, except for the very first year they went to this format(seats instead of bleachers), and I just had to wait a little bit then.

I do appreciate the extra warm up space, because at Devaney it used to get so hot in there that I told my guys not to use it all. It has gotten better recently, but it is still crowded. and when pm weigh ins happen, the guys that are wrestling are out of luck.

I don't think it will be that bad at Qwest. We should be able to find affordable lodging and meals outside of qwest.

I am just worried mostly about the parking situation, (which I have another - comment on), how tickets will be handled and their price and coaches seating.

I can learn to find my way around Omaha. And probably shop around Council Bluffs for a cheaper, closer hotel.

Parking- they said will charge $9 for a day pass, so you can leave and come back. There is only one day you leave and come back and that is Friday. isn't it? We only have one session on Thurs. and on Saturday, we probably wouldn't leave between unless they made us. Getting in and out of qwest in a new environment will be slow. At Devaney we could run down to 10th street adn the fast food.

So are they really doing anybody a favor with this $9 pass? Not really.

You know, I never really thought about there being only one entrance. Where will wrestlers enter? is there an entrance in the back? Could we park all of our school vans back there? That could save space. Or is this what they are already planning.
I went to the circus there adn they had all the circus vans, trains etc back there.

At the Big 12's the wrestlers all had an area that they entered thru with guards checking ID's. It was located on the lower level north of where the ticket windows were located, that led right into the warm up area, if that gives you an idea of where they did it then>

My understanding is the vote is this afternoon somewhere around 1:30-2:00.

Rocker - will call as soon as the vote goes down so you can post here.

Just one comment about the floor space...Two years ago, Brett Nickolite of Stanton was wrestling in the consolations. He was down by a point with very little time left in the match. He hit a running double leg that started about the center of the mat. The referee blew his whistle and called it out-of-bounds because he was afraid the two guys were going to be run off the mat and into the scorer's table. They both ended up landing on the mat, all supporting points in bounds. More floor room means one less judgement call the referees have to worry about making.