He is in favor of redistributing the wealth or as he himself put it, "I think when we spread the wealth around it's good for everybody". That my friend is socialism pure and simple.

He has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership, he has voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense, refused to sign a friend of the court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case, he has supported tha banning of hundreds of rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.


Edit to add:

None of which have anything to do with the color of his skin.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Red Rocker,

Socialism by definition is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods." A socialist by definition is "one who advocates or practices socialism." Obama makes no bones about what he believes. He is proud of that which he holds dear. He has made no attempt to hide what he believes. Bigger government leads to socialistic tendencies. That is what you will get with Obama. So, why do you have a problem with calling him what he is by definition?

Nobody is "paint[ing] Obama as a poor choice for a President" more than Obama himself. Why do you have a problem with me talking about that which I disagree with? I do not believe the things that Obama believes. To point out things that he has done, said, and participated in does not make me a racist. For you not to deal with the legitimate issues raised and instead deflect them with ad hominem attacks is insulting. This has nothing to do with Obama's race, but rather, what Obama stands for and what he believes in. I don't think he is the right choice for President, that is my right and privilege. If you do, that is your decision, and you can vote accordingly.
(above quotes from m-w.com)

Don't worry Vader, I will vote accordingly. I'm sure you will too. Our government has had socialist principles for a long time, and what I add to that is SO WHAT? I am positive that if Obama is elected to the presidency that he won't be the first President to support and kepp passing bills that added more tax dollars to the welfare system. Does anyone not think that John McCain would do the same? I won't even get into the weapons argument. I don't believe in guns, and that is my belief. Everyone else can choose what they believe in. Here's hoping America doesn't fall off the map with the election of Barack Hussein Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by Red Sox:
Don't worry Vader, I will vote accordingly. I'm sure you will too. Our government has had socialist principles for a long time, and what I add to that is SO WHAT? I am positive that if Obama is elected to the presidency that he won't be the first President to support and kepp passing bills that added more tax dollars to the welfare system. Does anyone not think that John McCain would do the same? I won't even get into the weapons argument. I don't believe in guns, and that is my belief. Everyone else can choose what they believe in. Here's hoping America doesn't fall off the map with the election of Barack Hussein Obama.

It is your choice not to believe in guns, but it is my Constitutional Right to keep them. There's a big difference. Mr Obama nor anyone else elected to uphold the Constitution should believe or vote otherwise.

Those same representatives and senators can change your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT at anytime they choose to do so. Its been done before. If a proposed amendment stating that gun ownership is outlawed in the U.S. is proposed and passed by a 2/3 vote in the House and Senate and then ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures, we have a new amendment that outlaws the 2nd. I know my government Red Rocker.....

I don't know, isn't that why we have "checks and balances"? If Mr. Obama believes "guns are bad" or what ever, he has the Constitutional Right to do so. The scare tactics of him coming in and having the power to change everything with the wave of his arm is ludicrous. That is not how things work.

That is a potential problem, OU. With Reid and Pelosi in charge of Congress, what checks and balances are there going to be when they are as liberal as Obama?

Vader are you trying to imply that if a congress and a president are of the same party they will run rampant and do whatever they please? I don't believe that will happen. One could easily say the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot then. If America chooses to have a democratically controlled congress and a democrat president, isn't that okay?

Red Sox, that is not what I am implying. Please, don't misconstrue. Obviously, a few years ago it was the other way around, and unfortunately, spending went a bit on the wild side with the Republicans in charge. A far cry from their fiscal conservative promises.

What I am saying is that there is a chance of a "super majority" of democrats in charge of Congress. That reduces the amount of "checks and balances" in government. And, I think that lends to the ability to do more of what they wish to do, and frankly, I think that is to grow government bigger.

Is it okay if that happens? Well, I guess it will have to be. Not much I can do about it except vote my values, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Red Sox:
Those same representatives and senators can change your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT at anytime they choose to do so. Its been done before. If a proposed amendment stating that gun ownership is outlawed in the U.S. is proposed and passed by a 2/3 vote in the House and Senate and then ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures, we have a new amendment that outlaws the 2nd. I know my government Red Rocker.....

Glad you know your government, too many people do not.

I'm also well aware of how the Constitution can be changed. As of this writing, the 2nd Amendment remains the same. So that means to me that anyone who has taken an oath to uphold that Constitution should support the individual right (which was recently upheld in the Supreme Court in the Heller case) to keep and bear arms. Mr. Obama does not.


And yes, I cling to my religion and my guns tightly.


Oh, and you forgot to address his own statement about "spreading the wealth around" and that being one of the pillars of Socialism.

"Spreading the wealth" is done every single day in America. The wealthy are taxed more and give away more to low and middle class every single day. Do I have a problem with it? Absolutely not. The day I have to pay the same in taxes as a millionaire is the last day I live in America. There are plenty of hard working Americans that work their tails off for $10-12 bucks an hour every single day that benefit from the wealthy in America "spreading the wealth" around by way of paying more in taxes than the hourly wage worker. I don't know why a huge flag was raised about that. Ever since the Populists had their first political convention in 1892 in OMAHA, that was one of the main selling points of their beliefs. A staggered tax system where the wealthy pay more and the poor pay less. That my friends is "spreading the wealth".

As the election winds down, I hope that the democratically-controlled congress and soon to be White House can co-exist with the republicans to make the country a better place. I am very sure though that if they don't, a change will be made in four years.

quote:

Originally posted by Red Sox:
"Spreading the wealth" is done every single day in America. The wealthy are taxed more and give away more to low and middle class every single day. Do I have a problem with it? Absolutely not. The day I have to pay the same in taxes as a millionaire is the last day I live in America. There are plenty of hard working Americans that work their tails off for $10-12 bucks an hour every single day that benefit from the wealthy in America "spreading the wealth" around by way of paying more in taxes than the hourly wage worker. I don't know why a huge flag was raised about that. Ever since the Populists had their first political convention in 1892 in OMAHA, that was one of the main selling points of their beliefs. A staggered tax system where the wealthy pay more and the poor pay less. That my friends is "spreading the wealth".

As the election winds down, I hope that the democratically-controlled congress and soon to be White House can co-exist with the republicans to make the country a better place. I am very sure though that if they don't, a change will be made in four years.

Different tax brackets for different income levels is one thing. Personally, I prefer a flat tax. I don't care how much you make, you pay X% in taxes.

Increasing the taxes for some and using that to give it to others is another. Especially when a significant amount of those who you are giving the money to don't pay any taxes at all. Spin it however you want it's taking money from one and giving it to another. Socialism.


I'm sorry you can't see the difference.



You also failed to respond to the fact that the 2nd Amendment has not been changed and all the things I posted regarding Obama's record regarding the 2nd are true. Care to respond to that?

Chad is right. We have been socialist for many years and it was under Reps and Dems...

We also have gone away from the constitution, even before Bush.

Anybody who really wants to be free should start listening a little more to Nader and Paul.
The Revolutoin, a book by Ron Paul is an awesome and educational read.

I did not vote for a single Republican or Democrat yesterday...I voted for REAL change. Sad to say not nearly enough sheep were led away from the slaughter on election day.

On the bright side -- I have an open license to b*tch for the next four years, and don't think for one minute I won't exercise that option.

On a positive note:

I would like to congratulate Bill Ayers "cousin" Jim for winning a seat on the Ogallala School board. Way to go

Did anyone notice todays weather? Pretty sunny here!

Saw that Jim was running for the school board. Glad to hear he made it.

It was cloudy with a few rain drops this morning on my drive to work... literally.

Red Rocker: I could care less how Obama voted on gun issues. My personal stance is that firearms should be limited in various capacities in America. I know I am in the minority on this, but that is my opinion. Of course the 2nd Amendment has not been changed. There is not enough support for it. There never will be, regardless of who is President. I don't believe anyone in America has to worry about owning their shotguns, rifles, and handguns. Nobody I believe came around this morning and started confiscating weapons because a liberal won the Presidency last night.

If you want to pay the same amount of taxes as Warren Buffett, go right ahead Red Rocker. I think I will stick to our current system. Look at our tax system closely and you will see that the rich in America pay a majority of the taxes. Lets say that Mr. Buffett and I paid the same flat rate in taxes every year. Lets say that amout was $15,000 in federal taxes. I am a teacher, coach three sports, and I deliver papers in the morning to support my wife and three children because my wife stays home. With a flat tax, my income will take a severe hit, and Mr. Buffett's will not. I work hard every single day, have a master's degree, but I still struggle to get by. Who gets affected more by the flat tax proposal? Its pretty simple, the lower and middle class Americans. You go right ahead and pay the same amount in taxes as the wealthy Red Rocker. Go right ahead. I'll pay what I pay now and continue on every day like I do. The day we have a flat tax is when I go out into the business world and give up what I love to do. Hopefully that's enough of a response for you Red Rocker.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Red Sox,

Missed the point on taxes Red Sox. I didn't say anything about paying the same amount of tax I said the same percentage of your income. So let's say it is 15%, a person making $1,000,000.00 would pay $150,000.00 and a person making $10,000.00 would pay $1,500.00. You went off on a rant about you me and Buffet paying the same amount when that is nothing close to what I said.

Don't worry, you have went off on a rant about guns when it never mattered either. Here's hoping you can get by when Obama takes away your guns. A flat tax percentage still hurts the lower to middle class anyway. How does it not? How does a flat tax percentage help out the ones that need it the most? It simply does not. I don't care how you put your flat tax rate, it will hurt the people that make the least amount of money, pure and simple. When you make less than someone else, paying the same percentage in taxes hurts the ones that make the least. Is it the poor's fault they make less than the wealthy? If you believe in Social Darwinism, it does. I think there are a lot of people that work their tails off just to get by. They need tax breaks. The wealthy do not. They can afford to pay more without having their everyday lives being affected by it. I'm sure the country will make the rich give away all of their money anyway to bums on the street to give them houses during the Obama administration. Socialism is great!

Good thing wrestling season starts in a few days. We have more time to prepare than ever this year in Crete at least with the last few years. I think I'll stick to wrestling-related comments now. I'm in the minority on this side of the board, and my side won out so I'm in double trouble now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Red Sox,