From the posts on this forum I have come to the conclusion that most coaches aren't madly in love with our weight management plan. I haven't been able to figure out the difference between a decent descent plan and an indecent descent plan. I have long advocated a simple weight management plan; let your body tell you when you have cut too much. I believe we should give a 2 lbs allowance for the weight of the uniform and shoes and weight at matside, then go directly to the mat and wrestle. No water bottle, no gatorade, nothing. I watched good evidence of this Saturday night in the Iowa-Iowa State dual. Iowa weighed in 2 men at 133 lbs. One of them was Joe Slaton, the NCAA runner up last year at 133. Dan Gable, who is one of the commentators on the Iowa Public Television broadcasts, said he didn't expect Slaton to wrestle because he has been having some weight problems. Nevertheless, Slaton went out against a very good Cyclone, Nick Fanthorpe. I expected a close, action packed match. Slaton, who has always been a high energy, go-go wrestler, started out with a quick takedown and rode Fanthorpe tough for over a minute. Then he hit the wall. Fanthorpe gorilla slapped him into the middle of next week and scored a 12-2 major decision. Slaton could not move. He had obviously cut too much weight too fast. The one hour time between weigh in and match time didn't give him enough time to rehydrate and rebuild his energy. I am sure that both he and Coach Brand were embarrassed about that match enough that neither of them will want to suffer through it again. Now imagine what it would have looked like if he had weighed in and stepped on the mat with no rehydration. His body would have given him a great weight management plan; don't do this again.

Frank,

I got your check and you are now a member of the NSWCA. Thank you for your support.

Craig Mauler
2008-2009 NSWCA President

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog:
Frank,

I got your check and you are now a member of the NSWCA. Thank you for your support.

Craig Mauler
2008-2009 NSWCA President

Craig,

I sent you an email a while back about some ideas I have....did you get it?

fred franklin

Coach Ryan, I grew up and wrestled in the same general time period you did, and the thing i remember most was that kids cut lots of weight, but then at the end of the season, you could expect kids that were in your weightclass all year to crash down another weightclass for districts/state.You never knew untill the weighins at the district meet what stud/s from a weightclass up had decided to come down a class.I did it some myself, and it wasn't healthy, or smart probably.That probablly needed to change,especially at the college level where kids were pushed to their limits and beyond.
That brings us to the present state of things which in my mind are not a big improvement.Today, kids still cut the weight, but have to jump through a bunch of stupid hoops to do it.If you wrestle year round, or at least a significant portion of the year, you basically hold a lower weight than your normal walk around weight by training and dieting, and making your desired weight for competitions.The other option, if you are a multi-sport athlete who plays football, you finish one season, before you think about weightcutting,(getting in wrestling shape) and if your football team makes the playoffs, or go deep in the playoffs,you really get no break between the two sport seasons.Then you show up the first day of wrestling practice knowing within a couple days you have to certify at a weight, while being checked for a hydration level.The testing if bogus in my opinion.If you took 100 kids off the street, and tested them, a significant percentage of them would not be hydrated enough to pass.We also run into a good percewntage of kids who even as highschool kids are realatively new to the sport, and just haven't learned to manage their weight.This then puts a kid who is a 119 pounder if you compare him to his wrestling peers, who is told he has to wrestle no lower that 130 for a couple meets, then 125 for a stint, then maybe after Christmas down to the intended 119 pound class.Well, guess what, the 119 pounder only won a couple matches at the higher weights, or even the real studs take aloss here or there, and end up having those losses effect therir seeding for the rest of the year.
The Howells team this year was a good example.They went to the football finals, then took a couple days off, started practice,and within a week or 10 days had to certify.They attempted to get to their desired weights, made the weight but 3/4ths of the team couldn't pass the hydration test.The result was they went on a roadtrip to wrestle a dual with Norfolk Catholic and only had 3 elligeble wrestlers.One of them, took a FFT as Catholic was open, one kid matched up with an opponant and wrestled, and another bumped up a weight to get a match. I'm not blaming either team, but am asking how that is good for the sport.You have fans showing up anticipating a highly competative dual who were told, or found out there would only be two matches.
I hate the system and truely belive it is bad for the sport.I dont have a solution, but would like to see matside weighins tried, with no weightloss hoops to jump through.

Tonight we wrestled SC West and Heelan.We had a kid who intends to end up at 119,but his disent plan wont let him wrestle 119 till the GI Flatwater Fracas on december 19/20.When he got there, he checked his weight and weighed 120.3. His plan said he should be no lower than 120.7 so he has to drink .4 pounds of water so it doesn't screw up his disent plan,not a big deal, but is that the most asanine thing you ever heard? The kids extra weight (bodyfat) is melting off with just hard work, and watching what he eats.Nothing unhealthy about it, but the braintrust in high places think they know more than the kid, his parents,doctor, and coaches, about what is best for him. BTW, we wrestled the kid up at 130, and he got a win, and also took a forfeit at 125.

Panther, you are 100% wrong on your wrestler having to drink to be right on 120.7. He could have weighed anything below 120.3, but to stay on the plan that was drawn up he can NOT weigh more than 120.3. Wins at 125 and 130 seems to indicate that he can be successful at any of those weights! Well Done!

So if he weighed in slightly below his plan, the plan would not get recalculated? What is stupid to me, is he esentially is at 119 already but can wrestle there until the 19th on our schedule.

The plan gets recalculated after each official weigh in and is figured according to the highest of these 2 : the weight he weighed at weigh ins, or the weight on the descent plan. The biggest thing to remember here is that this is for the safety of the wrestlers!!!!!! While some wrestlers loose weight easily they all have a more difficult time as they get closer to thier 7%. That is when the plan becomes most important. While I see your arguement to let them wrestle the weight if they are there, we all know that not every wrestler gets there in a way that is healthy for them. This plan is designed to protect them! If we can keep one wrestler from harming himself and putting a black mark on the sport, isn't it worth it?

Remember, these matches now at a weight above the weight they want to wrestle, will build character, and will mean little, if anything at all, when the wrestler is safe and healthy on the Quest Center floor in Feb!

Panther, rfc is correct. If you weigh below what your decent plan says, no big deal, it just won't credit you with that lower weight. If you weigh in above what the plan says, it will re-calculate from that higher weight.

I would have to disagree with the matside weigh ins. Wrestlers will cut weight no matter what. Matside weigh ins would only add to poorer matches being wrestled because of dehydration.

The college weight management program is a joke. There is so much cheating on it that the weight management program is irrelevant. It is only an obstacle to work around. I am sure that the NCAA will not step in until there are more deaths that occur. I understand with the high school weight management program there is also the potential for cheating. However, what I have see is there is far less cheating than in college.

I am probably in the minority of coaches that are in favor of the weight management program that believe it is very good for our sport. I see far less kids, on all teams, weighing in barely under weight and far more coming in 1-3 lbs. under weight. We had a kid last year start the season at 160, his weight management plan said he can go to 140. In the past he would have done that in about 2 1/2 weeks. Last year he did not get to 140 until mid January. Once he got down he was 2-3 lbs. under weight every weigh in and eating just about anything he wanted. In the past he would have yo-yoed all season and would have been miserable. Instead he had cut back his eating, but still ate decent meals because the weight plan would only allow him to drop so much each week so it did no good to starve. In the end he dropped all the body fat and ate more healthy.

I know it is a pain to administer the weight management plans and make sure everyone is where they need to be. It also messes up the line up early in the season, we still have three guys working their way down. However, overall the health of the kids it is much better than anything in the past.

Badger, good to hear from you.Thanks for your insight, you are probably right about poor performance w/matside weighins.

I have to agree with Badger. I think kids are healthier with the new plans. We are suffering right now because of the plan. We have a kid that weighs 131 that is wrestling 140. Will be 130 after xmas. On Dec. 20, his decent plan says he should be 130.44. Still can't wrestle 130...but HE MISSED WEIGHT BY .5 ON THE FIRST MEET. That changed his plan. We also have a 160lber that would have waited till mid Jan. before he could get to 160. We waited an extra 10 days and sat out 2 competitions and took it off slow and now he made 160 in alphas and is done cutting for the year. The hydration test really puts a wrinkle in sucking down hard for alphas. As coaches we have to do some practice tests and pencil work to fill a team early, but all in all, the plan is a good thing. I DO HATE THE EXTRA PAPERWORK.

Badger,
I agree that matside weighins will bring poorer performances on the mat; for a while. Then when kids and coaches realize he's not very effective they will either get his weight management in order so that he isn't dehydrating to make weight or he will move up a weight so that he can be effective. Slaton didn't wrestle against UNI on Thursday night. Apparently either he or Coach Brand didn't want another performance like his showing against Iowa State. Percentage of body fat is a poor indicator of damage to your body. Good cross country runners are usually under 7% body fat but they don't die in competition, suffer kidney damage, etc. Why not? Because they are fully hydrated. The dehydrated wrestler is going to suffer from cramps, fatigue, and lack of concentration. When he can weigh an hour or two before competition and then try to rehydrate he gets a false sense of well being. The bad effects often don't start to show up until the third period. Let it show up in the first 15 seconds of the match and that wrestler will get the message. Get you weight under control properly or move up to where you can control it properly.

Here is some more interesting info.As everyone knows, we are in the northeast part of the state,so for practicality, and convenience, along with trying to keep costs down, we schedule out of state a good deal.We wrestle 3 or 4 of the Sioux City bigger class schools, or see them at tourneys, and also see 4 or 5 South dakota teams at different times.We also do schedule out of state, to see different kids, and styles, and because we dont want to see the same schools 4 or 5 times in a season.I'd say the better out of state teams we see, are comperable to all but the best 5 or 6 class A teams in state. I wasn't aware that you could opt out of the National federation weightloss deal, but South Dakota has done that.They do not have to deal with decent plans, and jump through stupid hoops like we do.Yesterday at the Yankton duals, all teams but us could weigh in at their own school in the morning, while the NSAA said to record as certified weigh ins,we had to weigh in at Yankton at 10:00 to wrestle at 11:00. Not a great advantage to the other teams, but a slight one.They dont have decent plans, or hydration issues to deal with, so for example, their 119 pounders actually weighed 119. Our kid had to weigh 119.4 but could only wrestle 125, or 130, which he did both.(Their 119 pounders were beating the crap out of our 112 pounder)Also because of our decent plans, and injuries, we had noone to wrestle at a couple weights.We were open.The other teams could accept a forfeit with 7th or 8th graders, as they are elligible in South Dakota.The NSAA wont let us use a 7th/8th grader.Why are we so anal about following the letter of the law of the national federation, while surrounding states seem to be able to use discretion and common sense more readily?Another question, why can South Dakota teams use 7th/8th graders when they wrestle in Nebraska, but we cant when wrestling at their place?