Huskermat Site Main Forum Page Huskermat BBS Open Discussion (free) Eliminating a class in the next two years
Main Forum Page Huskermat BBS Open Discussion (free) Eliminating a class in the next two yearsModerators: Red Rocker
Read-Only TopicGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools |
| Eliminating a class in the next two years | Login/Join |
Rookie Location: omaha ne Registered: August 02, 2005 Posts: 175 | posted Remembering way back, 1974-75. Aberdeen Central, 3rd largest school in the state of SD, about 1300 kids in 3 grades. We probably had 100-150 supporters at each match and we were a so-so team. Lot of support compared to most of the class A teams here in Nebraska that I have seen. Basketball, which was my sport, drew about 2000 supporters. |
Novice Location: St Paul, Mn Registered: November 14, 2002 Posts: 234 | posted Here's Minnesota's Class structure for wrestling... A - 76 teams Students - Approx 330 and under AA - 90 teams Students - Approx 330 - 800 AAA- 87 teams Students - Approx 800 - 2500 The question Nebr. HS wrestling needs to answer is if they want the wrestling to get better or provide more potential opportunities for a handful more students. I do believe it comes down to that too. Better wrestlers or more opportunities... |
Junior Varsity Location: O'Neill, NE Registered: November 18, 2005 Posts: 613 | posted Thanks Frank...that offers plenty of insight that we should take a close look at. Thanks again! |
| State Qualifier Registered: March 21, 2005 Posts: 1035 | posted
|
Rookie Location: Bayside, CA Registered: December 17, 2004 Posts: 12 | posted Not quite sure when people started to count byes in tournaments as wins in their overall records, must of started last night. South Dakota has 2 classes, A and B. A = top 32 schools that sponsor wrestling and B = the rest. The A schools wrestle in 4 regions with 8 teams with the top 4 qualifying for the state meet that rotates between Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Watertown and Aberdeen. The B schools will have 8 districts with no less than 7 teams in a district. The top 4 at districts will qualify for their regional tournament with the top 4 from another district. From their the top 4 at regions moves onto the state meet which rotates between Sioux Falls and Aberdeen. When the B tournament is in Sioux Falls, the A tournament will be in Aberdeen, Watertown or Rapid City and vice versa. The other thing is they place out 8 in both classes. To me this is about participation, participation in a state tournament is a huge thing to these kids. Take away a class and you are taking away opportunities away from the kids and for what? "To stregthen wrestling in Nebraska". I don't think so. Shifting the schools by addition is fine, but eliminating a class is just wrong. Who cares what people on the outside looking in think, if a kid can tell his son or grandson that he got to wrestle at the state tournament then we have done our job, regardless of that kids record. The one thing I would like to see changed is the number of medalists increased to 8. Once again the kids. That 8th place medal around some kids neck isn't going to mean any less to him or anyone else if it was instituted. That 2nd round wrestle back match will be some exciting wrestling because there is a medal at stake. |
| Rookie Registered: December 11, 2005 Posts: 105 | posted Are there any coaches counting tournament byes as wins??????? I hope not!!!! |
   Moderator Location: Omaha,NE,USA Registered: October 19, 2002 Posts: 1116 | posted i hope not....yer dumb if you do "It's in the bag coach, it's in the bag." |
| Rookie Location: kearney Registered: May 06, 2003 Posts: 158 | posted I like the 3 class idea. As a wrestler from an A school we had 6 or 7 wrestlers fighting for varsity. Thats the same as 6 or 7 small school wrestlers fighting for qualifying for state, right? Plus many Class C or D schools have lots of open weight classes. I dont know the exact stats but Kansas has 4 classes and has 1 million more poeple than NE |
| Rookie Registered: December 21, 2003 Posts: 75 | posted I don't presume to have an answer but it seems to me that here we go again with trying to accomadate the bigger schools at the expense of the smaller schools. |
| Novice Registered: September 01, 2005 Posts: 268 | posted I am and always will be a big advocate of less classes. I agree with Keiswetter that it is okay to have more schools in the lowest weight class because very few schools in class D have full teams, or even more than eight weight classes. You also can't expand A and B to make the lower class have less institutions due to team championship probability. A few years ago, there were four four time state champions, now it seems that every yearsomeone is going for four. This is an indication of too many classes. This you might say is great for the student-athlete. I would have to disagree and say that most wrestlers going for four titles are looking to wrestle beyond high school, and Nebraska's state tournament structure makes these credentioals suspect. Arena space concerns could be eliminated if we would eliminate wrestlers prior to districts. A sectional tournament would do this. While were at it, which geniuss in the NSAA thought Nebraska needs 6 classes for volleyball, basketball, and football? |
| Rookie Registered: October 23, 2002 Posts: 75 | posted Since Kansas was brought up as an example, let’s take a look at Kansas. For wrestling they have 4 classes. The large school class has 32 teams, just like Nebraska. The student enrollment in this class ranges from 1627 to 1000 students a difference of 627 students. Class A enrollment in Nebraska ranges from 1996 to 724, a difference of 1272 students. The second largest class in Kansas also has 32 teams in it with an enrollment that ranges from 995 to 522, a difference of 473 students. Class B in Nebraska has 48 teams with an enrollment range of 724 to 198, a difference of 526 students The third class in Kansas has 64 teams with an enrollment range of 511 to 206, a difference of 305 students. Class C in Nebraska also has 64 teams with an enrollment that ranges from 196 to 110, a difference of 86 students. The fourth class in Kansas takes in all of the rest of the school that have wrestling, just like Class D in Nebraska. Now what is the purpose of having more than one class in wrestling in the first place? It is to insure that schools competing for a state championship are competing against schools of similar size. The NSAA is trying to accomplish that. They are not trying to group schools according to how good they are and how competitive they will be. They are trying to achieve enrollment parity. Compared to Kansas, Nebraska is already at twice the enrollment differential in the top two classes. The demographics of the schools in Nebraska are not like other states so you can’t do a direct comparison. The number of schools in each class does not give a good indication of how many students that represents. There are a lot of small schools in Nebraska and very few large schools. As the classes are now, Class A already has over half of the states total enrollment for schools that have wrestling. The plans as discussed above would make it so Class A would have about ¾’s of the total enrollment of schools that have wrestling. If you are going to argue that school size does not matter then there should only be one class. The arguments on this thread are only trying to make one super class and then two or three watered down classes. Then there would be no argument about which class is the toughest. I think the main purpose behind this argument is to get Skutt into Class A so someone else can win Class B. If that is the case then try to talk Skutt into opting into Class A and then maybe everyone will be satisfied. |
Rookie Location: Omaha, NE Registered: December 12, 2002 Posts: 161 | posted Yep, JO, you hit the nail on the head. I am against doing anything for just one sport. Here you are picking out wrestling and leaving everyone else out of the mix. If we are going to make a change.....let's do it for all the sports and not just one. The logic that was used in the proposal just doesn't hold any water. It was said that there was poor records in the class A wrestling tournament brackets as one of the reasons. Well, do the math on the teams that made the class A state playoffs in football...then do the math in wrestling.....Football was worse, but we don't even look at football. Why? Well the class B guys don't want to move up to face the Preps and the Millard Norths. In football everyone is accutely aware that a school with an enrollment of 2200 has a better chance than a school with an enrollment of 400. BUT throw that out the door with wrestling. Doesn't make sense. I am no actuary, but I did some numbers in past brackets. Most class A brackets have an average win record of 68% or better. In the other classes the win % varies from 69% to low 70's. This doesn't show me a huge disparity? In fact it probably fits a normal deviation if you take how many times class A teams wrestle each other. If you are going to make a change, let's do it across the board and then let's get the NSAA to look at changing the way the classify. Let's not just single out wrestling so that Skutt ends up in class A. As far as cutting classes. I am against cutting opportunities for kids. I like to create, not cut. If you read the recent articles written on the New York Web, they want a system like Nebraska and Kansas, and they don't want the system that is there now. THEY, the coaches, HATE the system there now. Check it out sometime. |
| Rookie Location: Nebraska City, NE Registered: December 27, 2002 Posts: 67 | posted I have only one request if there is ever a change in the current structure and Nebraska goes to a three class system. I would hope that the NSAA would at least double the number of districts in each class or at least add sub-districts to insure all of the deserving wrestlers get the best opportunity to attend the state tournament and not be left out because their district has 6 state level wrestlers. Iowa uses a sectional and district system. The two top wrestlers from each sectional (8-12 teams)advance to districts and the top two in each of the 8 districts then advance to the state tournament for their 16-man field. While this, or any other system, would never eliminate the possiblity of leaving a state medalist at home, I believe you need expand the district qualifying options, if the number of teams expand in each class. |
| Novice Location: St Paul, Mn Registered: November 14, 2002 Posts: 234 | posted I might add that Iowa's is very similar to Minnesota's... You also wrestle for a true second. Just because you made it to the finals is no guarantee you will qualify for the next round. As far as changing the class structure for all sports... they are already different. Cozad, for example, played C-1 football, but is wrestling in Class B. They need to do whats best for wrestling, not trying to make it all the same for every sport. JMO  |
| Rookie Registered: December 08, 2005 Posts: 174 | posted Everybody puts way too much emphasis on enrollment. Who would YOU rather wrestle, Omaha Northwest or Cozad? Is this topic just a discussion or is it really in the works? |
| Rookie Registered: December 08, 2005 Posts: 174 | posted Since this is for wrestling only, they should look at competitiveness of the schools and their history. I'd vote for something like this A - 42 teams down to Gretna B - 54 teams down to Bishop Neuman C - 52 teams down to Southwest D - 71 teams down to Sioux County |
| State Qualifier Registered: March 21, 2005 Posts: 1035 | posted I went through the 2005 tournament program to determine how many wrestlers qualified for the state tournament with a losing record. Here's the breakdown: A 27 B 9 C 4 D 9 I'm not saying that a wrestler with a losing record should not be allowed to compete in the state meet. Many times that wrestler is coming back from an injury, started the season with little or no experience and improved rapidly toward the end of the season, etc. But when 27 wrestlers qualify with losing records that tells me one of two things. 1. There are not enough teams in that class, or, 2. We are taking too many kids out of that class to state. |
| State Qualifier Registered: March 21, 2005 Posts: 1035 | posted I just went through the state tournament to check on how many wrestlers with a losing record won their first matches. Only one, a Class B wrestler, won in the first round. I also discovered that I had made 3 errors. There were 28 Class A wrestlers with losing records instead of the 27 that I reported earlier. There were 10 in B instead of the 9 that I reported earlier. There were 3 instead of 4 in Class C and 10 instead of 9 in D. Here's my very unscientific analysis of these results. There are definitely too few teams in Class A. B may be borderline too few. C is probably all right with the number of teams. D is a different case. If there are 20 boys in school and the coach's contract states that he must let 10 skinny kids play basketball then he will have to have some open weights. So even though there may be enough teams in the district there may not be enough wrestlers in each weight to keep those losing records from qualifying. |
| Rookie Registered: November 20, 2005 Posts: 70 | posted The number of schools in each class may not be the cause of the problem of kids with losing records making state. The fact that districts are not balanced with some being loaded and some being rather weak is the bigger problem. I'm no expert but it seems to me the state could award the four district sites before the season, then the first week of February use a scoring system to rate the teams and distribute them evenly between the four districts. Too often we see one district with 4 or 5 rated teams and another with one. I'm sure I'm overlooking something but I thought I would throw this out. |
Moderator Location: Omaha,NE,USA Registered: October 19, 2002 Posts: 1116 | posted how bout we make one or classes...have it be a 32 man bracket and place the top 8? always an idea. "It's in the bag coach, it's in the bag." |
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Read-Only TopicHuskermat Site Main Forum Page Huskermat BBS Open Discussion (free) Eliminating a class in the next two years
Main Forum Page Huskermat BBS Open Discussion (free) Eliminating a class in the next two years© huskermat.com 2004