Link to the story on TheMat.com

Took away the unsportsmanlike penalty for the Coach whose wreslter reports to the mat not ready to wrestle.

Increased the team point penalty for disqualification for misconduct by the Coach from 1 point to 2 points.

Increased the team point penalty for disqualification for unsportsmanlike conduct by the Coach or athlete from 1 point to 2 points.

Considering changing the number of weight classes from 14 to 12.

What weight classes would they get rid of. I personally feel that this would be stupid, not only would it hurt the kids but it would hurt the sport.
Wrestling is the only sport that it doesn't matter how big or small you are. You can still be great. Taking away weight classes is going to take away precious mat time away from two kids every year.
Maybe the dumbest thing ever!

Peace

Deano

TK you let me down,I figured you'd be the one to report on this first.

The weight class thing was up for discussion last year. I believe the weights discussed were: 108, 115, 123, 130, 137, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, 275. Really not a bad idea, in my opinion. I think I have read in other posts how watered down everything. This may make the practice room more competitive and eventually the matches will be more competitive. So in my opinion this may make the sport more competitive. We should not look to reduce any more weight classes at the high school level. 12 is all the lower it should be.

Sports are not just about the best kids. I had 3 kids at 103 this year. All three were inexperienced and none of them had to lose weight. They all got to wrestle on varsity at one time or another with not a great deal of wins. All three came to practice worked their butt off and improved, which helped our team. If they would not have wrestled two of them would have spent 4 years on the bench in basketball and the other would be doing nothing. If they are out for 4 years they will all help us and most likely will improve a great deal. Don't take chances away from the less than average kid. If we are only concerned about the best wrestlers, then we only need 14 out in the entire state or nation depending on what level you would like to take it. That would be a real fun state tournament.

Well I would have to disagree this is a good thing! If they are looking at the weights listed it penalizes the smaller guys in the sport. Think about it this sport tends to lend it self to the smaller athlete, those that are not tall enough, weigh enough, or just palin big enough to particpate in other sports such as football, baseball or basketball. This just eliminates 1 more option for the smaller guys to enjoy high school athletics.
While it is quite obvious that young people today are bigger, stronger, and faster that 10, 20 or even 30 years ago I can remember having a 98lb class. I also know of at least 3 guys in class A that were well under 100lbs the whole season. And now you want them to compete a full weight class above what they normally weigh with out cutting any weight what so ever? Come on.
I would suggest that if they are going to start cutting wieght classes they should take a poll of how many atheletes participated at each weight and make a determination based on that data. In trying to look back there were more open weights or smaller brackets in the larger classes than the lower ones. I believe?
Leave the little guys alone say from 103-130 and give them a chance to enjoy!

I don't recall saying anything about sports being about the best kids. I said it might make it more competitive. 2 less weight classes, in theory, should make the practice room more competitive, which in turn should make matches more competitive. 3 kids battling for one spot made them better. I guess you helped make my point and I thank you for that. Another point to be made, just out of curiousity, can anyone tell me the number of teams that could fill all 14 weight classes? I am guessing not that many. Let's be real here, it is tough for a lot of programs out their to fill all 14 weight classes. If memory serves me correctly it wasn't all that long ago their was only 12 weight classes.

So Oriole, I take it then that you feel it is all about winning, or being the best?
Well I have a different outlook of this sport than you if that is what you are implying, win win, win!
At the time you cut the classes down you will have eliminated 2 more kids chances to step on the mat in a competitive atmosphere.
I want to see each and every athlete that pours out his guts, takes the time to practice, sacrafices meals, and shows the dedication that is required to participate in the sport get the chance to step out there knowing he has done everything he possibly could have done to compete and to the best of his or her abilities WIN or LOOSE.
As for the point that not many teams could fill a 14 man rooster, I would make this point and chanllenge you to do something about the lack of #'s.
My affiliation is as a parent with Lincoln South West, this is a school in the 2nd year of competition and they not only fieled a full team at over 95% of the meets they attended (the other 5% of the time was due to illness or injury) They also had a full JV squad and then some. If my memory is correct they had around 35 atheletes out. Look at Lincon East, Omaha Skutt, Millard South, Columbus, Norfolk, Kearney, Aurora, Cozad, etc. Should I go on naming them or do you get the point? Those teams and many others that are at the top of the sport promote, nurture, and plain just want the sport to get better, and if you cut the #'s down you are underminig what so many have worked so hard for (in my opinon).
How many state champs are there every year versuses the # of kids out tht don't even make the tournament.
So PLEASE go out and help the kids program if your not already, get a booster club started if you don't have one or get more involved in the one you have, volunteer to work tournaments if you aren't, drive the atheletes to summer camps, help a young person financially if you can to get them that pair of shoes so they can compete, and by all means CONTRIBUTE to this forum, its great to have this type of discussion and to see others view points.
Please go back and read all of Tom McCann fan's posts and hopefully you get a different perspective on what this sport can mean to others. I am not as computer savvy as RR, TK, or some of the ohters (If RR is reading this you know which post I am talking about that TMFput up on the Kearney boy)

TMF has had a couple of good posts along this line.

Click here for "It's not about winning"

Click here for "The Great Lie"

My thought is and this is my OWN opionion:

Let's leave it as it is. The system we have now allows more kids to participate. Sure it might make the wrestling room more competitive, but I don't believe soprts are about "winning" or "losing".

We are here to get kids involved, and help them build memories that they can take with them their whole life.

Hawk, I don't think anywhere in my previous posts I stated anything about winning, it is just about being competitive. Anytime someone that gives an unpopular opinion on this forum it degenerates into an elementary school yard name calling. I was simply stating an opinion. I also believe that many people have mentioned how watered down the sport is. Why do we only give 6 medals? Why not give 8 and make 2 more kids per weight class that feel good feeling that only a state medalist gets? Don't put words into my mouth. Didn't we get by with only 12 weight classes some 15 years ago? I know in my lifetime that we had 12 weight classes. I guess you wouldn't know that just like you've never seen an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati. If you would like to discuss this topic like a civilized person then by all means do so, point out things that you don't agree with instead of calling out individuals and poking at them. Thank you for participating, but do so within the parameters of a civilized society.

Oriole



How did I make your point? If we did not have the 103 weight class there would be 3 less kids in my room. They would not have the chance to improve. Strange slant on my post.????

Oriole, first this is not an attack. I did a little checking on my numbers because I am one of those teams who does not field a full team. Last year I was short 2 weights. If the new weights were to come in I would of still been short 2 weights and I would of had some kids not out because they would not of had the chance to participate. I could of filled them if one kid would of cut to below the recommended bodyfat % (I would not let this happen) and one jump up 1 weight classes from his natural weight (would not do this to the kid either). Even with many variations I have read on other sites, I still would not field a full team. I feel that the more we get to participate the stronger our sport will be.
As far as making the practice room more competitive that is personal pride. Any wrestler worth his salt will push his training partner to be better.
Do I think we need some changes? Yes. Many do not agree but 3 classes would make the tournament more competitive. But this will also reduce the number of participants at state (good or bad?). I think a substate or a regional qualifier would be good.
Am I the man with the answers? No.

Hey Pirate, shouldn't you be teaching math to the youth of Plainview? How do you have time to read these posts and respond to them? Take care.

I guess I am not following how this is going to make a wrestling room more competitive or help the sport. If you look at the two programs that I have been around they both would of had the same problems this year. They both had undersized 3 pounders, so if you add on five more #'s then you are just asking for injury. Not to mention the kid will not get better because he will be on the mat for about a minute at a time.
Also this is going to take kids out of the wrestling room, and no they may not be the best kids but they are still workout partners, not to mention wrestling is a sport of discipline. I don't know how many times in Valentine that I have seen a troubled kid go out for wrestling and it may only last for four months, but they are off the streets, not drinking or smoking whatever and maybe have a chance to turn their lives around. Now if you take away a weight class that one of these kids is hoping for. You pretty much have lost one kid that maybe all he was lacking was a little discipline or maybe a role model in his life.
If you think about this rationally it may help in the short term (key word being may), but in the long run you as a coach haven't been allowed to do your job to the fullest. You have been allowed to teach technique,bond with the kids you have out, motivate, but you don't get the chance to touch all of the lives that you possibly could, in some cases the ones that need it the most.

Peace

Deano

Oriole
This also is not an attack:
I asked your opinon on what your view of the sport was (winning or competing?) You state it is about being more competitive, while I have seen some very over matched kids on the mat I still enjoy seeing a kid get up even after a 15 second pin with a smile on their face knowing they trained hard and did the best they could and be happy they got the chance to COMPETE while not being very competitive.

I have to ask what name I called you because I cannot find anything of the sort. I do appologize though if you took something as name calling in my previous posts.
I also appologoze if you feel I was trying to put words in your mouth. That was not the intent and I cannot find what you may construe as doing so.

What is wrong with making some individual feel good about themselves? I would think you might like it when a supervisor, fellow worker, employer, or even a wife or girlfriend says job well done, and if handing 2 more kids a medal that are worth very few dollars for working their tails off I am all for it.

I do remember 12 weights in my time (1974) graduate of Lexington High (had some darn good teams back then) I also watched WKRP the best one had to be throwing the live turkeys out of an airplane and Les Nessman giving the play by play of them hitting the ground like wet sacks of cement.

I was not calling anyone out or poking at them I was making a point of the top teams fill their spots and challenging you to be more involved if your favorite team cannot do so.

As far as making my points I feel I have done that on several topics. More kids compete, more kids are busy working instead of sitting around thinking of things to destroy or worse, sacrafice, being rewarded, etc.

Please click on the TMF threads listed above they are a great read and give a whole different perspective on wreslting, coaching, life lessons, and what it means to be able to compete.

I have never intentionally attacked , called out or poked at anyone on this forum and if you feel that is the case here I am sorry I was just trying to give my opinon though it may be different than yours or others. If you read my last post carefully I did ask that you continue to contribute to this site as discussions that may or may not affect the sport that we are all so passoninate about is healthy for all.

SORRY

if they cut two weight classes, they're cutting as many as 512 competitors from district tournaments and 128 competitors from the state tournament. the nsaa isn't about to forfeit three days worth of ticket sales from the families and friends of 128 wrestlers. i've known people at state who had grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. come on down to lincoln and pay their admission for three days. it's the same reason they don't merge the four classes into three. always the dollars.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Red Rocker,

First off, it wasn't that long ago that we had 12 weight classes. I think maybe ten years ago it was changed (could find out for sure, but I am positive it hasn't been but maybe one or two years from 10) and everything worked fine. Much like it does now. And yes, we still had everyone of the problems you have all discussed on here. When it was changed from 12 to 14 the exact same arguments were made. Either way, it won't change the number of kids that are out. But it will change the number of participants at the district and state levels. Which, could be argued, will make everything more competitive. Take whatever weight class you followed and combine the people in that weight with the ones in a weight class right before it. Sure changes things don't it. And yes, you are right it isn't all about winning and losing, but then again it kind of is. There is only two guarantees in every wrestling match 1) There is a winner and 2) There is a loser. And we all know everyone feels alot better when they win, but we also know not everyone can win. That is one of the things that actually helps draw kids to the sport. (being more individualized then others) And as far as the other post, in my 26 years of wrestling and following wrestling I don't think I have EVER seen a kid get pinned in 15 sec. and get up smiling from ear to ear. At least not at the high school level or above.

To Pirate


It is my plan period. I have things taken care of. I would worry about yourself before you worry about me.

Hey Superfly, sorry to disappoint. This thread is not a new matter, in fact I believe there is a previous one on same subject on this forum. Subject seems to originate in the east, i.e. Ohio, maybe Pennsylvania. I'll never get a vote on it but I'd veto it in a NY minute. I've still read nothing here or on themat that has remotely come close to presenting logical rationale and therefore I'm still biased toward status quo. In fact, I'd rather vote in 2 more brackets instead. Besides, I'm way to young to remember when there actually were 2 fewer brackets