| Rookie Registered: August 25, 2009 Posts: 113 |  posted Didn't want to post this on the 100 win thread but was wondering how some teams figure 100 wins. Just a couple of questions and each school might be different. No wrong answer just looking at how different schools figure 100 wins. 1. Do you figure in Dual forfeits? (I know that these are used on overall record for seeding but do they figure in with your 100 wins. Also don't know the answer but if a Varsity team is dualing a JV team can a forfeit go on their win loss percentage as a win or is it like wrestling a JV kid and doesn't count for percentage?) 2. DO you figure in When a Varsity kid wrestles a JV wrestlers in a Varsity tournament? 3. Do JV records count? (Say a kid was on JV for two years behind a stud and won all of his matches at JV tournaments? Also what if he is JV and wrestles 10 matches at different tournaments with Varsity competition? ex. GI jv's at the D/T varsity invite)This message has been edited. Last edited by: huskernut, |
NCAA All American Location: Helena, MT, USA Registered: October 21, 2002 Posts: 1760 | posted From the other thread........... If you are in a varsity tournament and you are a varsity wrestler, any win against any wrestler counts towards your record (even if that wrestler is a jv wrestler). If you are a jv wrestler that wrestles in a varsity tournament, you cannot use those wins in your record, or even count them as common opponents for seeding purposes. I'm not arguing for or against...... just stating the rules as I know them. Rick Henry |
| NCAA Champion Registered: February 03, 2003 Posts: 2006 | posted
Number 1- Yes you figure in dual forfeits as wins. Part 2 of 1- Yes if its a varsity dual tournament. Some big school JVs get into small school Varsity duals. Number 2- Yes, cause its a varsity tournament. Number 3- JV records don't count. It's all about varsity tournaments and varsity dual tournaments....that's all that count. |
| Rookie Registered: August 25, 2009 Posts: 113 | posted I guess a better question would be, would you give a kid that won 25 matches as a freshman on JV and 85 matches as a sophomore through Senior on varsity an award for reaching 100 wins? What if 15 of those wins as a Freshman came in Varsity tournaments your JV's were at? |
| Rookie Registered: December 07, 2007 Posts: 177 | posted Rick are you saying if I wrestle jv first half of season and beat someone in a varsity tournament, then wrestle varsity second half of season he could get seeded ahead of me at districts? |
   Moderator Location: Good Ole USA Registered: October 24, 2002 Posts: 6303 | posted
That is correct. Only matches wrestled by the varsity wrestler as part of your varsity schedule as submitted to the NSAA can be used for District seeding purposes. -----------------  "A PEOPLE THAT VALUES ITS PRIVILEGES OVER ITS PRINCIPLES, SOON LOSES BOTH" EISENHOWER |
| Rookie Registered: May 22, 2007 Posts: 134 | posted Moved Reply: congrats to all on their 100th wins. but I wanted to add a question. How many of those 100 did they actually win? How many would they have if there weren't dual tournaments? Just a thought, but either way Congrats it is still quite the accomplishment! And...I believe Dalton Bourke of Elm Creek will get his 100th at the Mullen Invite this saturday. |
| Rookie Location: Scribner Registered: November 09, 2004 Posts: 68 | posted Moved Reply: I agree with LeG-RiDeR275, forfeits in dual tournaments play way to big a part in records when such a heavy emphasis on seeding criteria is placed on winning %. Also I thought wins against JV opponents weren't supposed to count on your record! Once again congratulations on reaching 100 victories its still a milstone. |
| Junior Varsity Registered: January 28, 2004 Posts: 741 | posted Moved Reply: I'll volunteer the info. for us at least. As most if not all coaches do, we count forfeits in dual tourneys as wins on our record, because by the rulebook they are. I'm not ashamed to say that in Lambrechts case, yes some are forfeits. In his case, 12 to be exact. So he has 88 varsity wins I believe in 2-3/4 yrs. Yes, dual tournaments have made the 100 win mark not so hard to reach anymore but I figured since the thread was there, I'd post. |
| Rookie Registered: May 22, 2007 Posts: 134 | posted Moved Reply: I generally don't have a problem with the forfeits counting for a kids person achievements but when state records are being broken for most wins ever it would be nice if that record be "legit" and not stained with 15+ forfeits because of duel tournaments. Now I'm only thinking off of the top of my head and not even sure of what the record is right now. I guarantee I can think of a couple kids right now that will be close to breaking it by their senior year, based off of the schedule they wrestle. |
| Novice Registered: April 05, 2005 Posts: 270 | posted Moved Reply: When a team weighs in 3 wrestlers at a dual tournament at your weight, and when you come up to wrestle they forfeit, what is a wrestler supposed to do? Also had a wrestler take his shoes off and go set in the stands. When his team was done wrestling us, he put his wrestling shoes back on and continued wrestling with his team. These are just 2 examples of wrestlers avoiding wrestling a certain wrestler. I don't think this should count against the wrestler that is ready and willing to wrestle anyone. It's very frustrating. I know our wrestlers would rather not have any forfeits, but sometimes they can not be helped. Congratulations to everyone that has 100 wins or more!This message has been edited. Last edited by: Debo's Mom, |
| Rookie Registered: December 11, 2009 Posts: 27 | posted I don't like that wrestlers get wins from a forfeit personally. When I was in HS I won 81 varsity matches in 3 years and only 6 of those were by forfeit in a dual. Now there's a kid on my team that has almost 10 wins this year alone by forfeits in duals. That's almost half of his wins. I know if there's nobody there then there's nothing you can do about it but still. I also know that dual tourneys are more common now than 5 years ago, the only dual tourney I was ever in was the EHC dual tourney, but are the wins legit for record books sake? "Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts." -Dan Gable |
| NCAA All American Location: Helena, MT, USA Registered: October 21, 2002 Posts: 1760 | posted
That's correct cowcatcher. Rick Henry |
Novice Registered: December 14, 2005 Posts: 337 | posted I guess it all depends on what dual tournaments you get into. For the most part all the tournaments that High Plains attends there are very few forfiets. You are always going to have one or two a year but no big deal in my opinion. Yes it is easier to obtain the 100 wins with that format but isn't mat time what were after. The 100 wins is still a great accomplishment, then and now. |
| Novice Registered: April 05, 2005 Posts: 270 | posted I think if coaches weigh someone in, they should be ready to wrestle when their weight comes up. I don't mind moving kids up or putting someone else in at a weight, but wrestle your kid if you have one. Wrestling someone you think is better than you only makes you better in the end. Don't forfeit when you have someone on your team that could wrestle. I think, this would cut down on a lot of forfeits in duals. |
Novice Registered: August 16, 2005 Posts: 351 | posted with all the dual tournaments like flatwater fracas and others these days, 150 wins is the new 100. Alot of kids have 25 wins by jan 1st now! At high plains there was a kid with 23 matches. Kids just have alot more opportunity to wrestle more matches today than ever before! Not to take away from 100 wins.but it is certainly is alot easier today then lets say when Red Rocker was in the mix! |
| Rookie Location: Scribner Registered: November 09, 2004 Posts: 68 | posted Just a thought but if it a dual tournament "in tournaments a bye doesn't count as a win but if you win your next match you get advancement points shouldn't byes then count as wins as well! |
| Novice Location: Creighton, Ne Registered: November 01, 2002 Posts: 217 | posted Mojo #2, Personally, I don't think byes should count as wins in any circumstance. Yes, with the advent of multiple dual tournaments, 100 wins is not what it used to be, though it is still a great accomplishment. Pin, takedown, near fall, etc. records are also easier to set with more matches. Then again, you have to remember that before the mid '80s there were even fewer matches allowed with the 26 match limit before districts. It was a major accomplishment to win 20 matches in a season. 100 career wins was very rare. Rules and circumstances change with different eras. You really can't compare those eras by looking at stats or records. |
| Rookie Registered: February 18, 2007 Posts: 9 | posted Byes don't count as wins, but anytime you take the mat and get your hand raised, ie. forfeit, that's a win. |
| Rookie Registered: December 21, 2008 Posts: 123 | posted OK. Have been known to stir it up in the past, maybe not on Husker Mat but I have some points to bring to light. 1. Why if a varsity wrestler beats a JV wrestler in a tournament it counts as a win but if a JV wrestler beats a varsity it does not? 2. If my wrestler competes in a 2 day dual meet he gets 7-9 matches, while a tournament wrestler gets 4-5 at the max? 3. These teams that compete in more dual type format tournaments, are they really preparing their kids for districts and state? 4. And finally to really stir the pot, as said before 100 wins really mean nothing. We have kids on our team with 20 matches currently but teams who do the dual tournaments have 30-35 at the current time. If you are a solid freshamn at a (especially) lighter weight you will reach 100 wins early in your senior year. |
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