Heard the proposal to increase Class A to 40 teams went through the assembly last night and will now be voted on this spring. I said it earlier this year that this was just a matter of time. This IMO is long overdue!

I have a quick question. How many teams will be in Class B then? Do they more some teams up from C to B? I remember reading about it but I forgot the details.

Coach Brand

Currently,
1. Omaha Central 1996
2. Millard North 1777
3. Omaha Northwest 1594
4. Omaha North 1592
5. Omaha Creighton Prep 1580
6. Millard South 1576
7. Omaha Burke 1563
8. Omaha South 1515
9. Grand Island 1496
10. Omaha Westside 1480
11. Millard West 1463
12. Lincoln Southwest 1399
13. Omaha Benson 1301
14. Omaha Bryan 1251
15. Lincoln North Star 1214
16. Lincoln High 1195
17. Lincoln East 1172
18. Lincoln Northeast 1138
19. Bellevue West 1122
20. Lincoln Southeast 1107
21. Papillion-LaVista 1096
22. Norfolk 1080
23. Bellevue East 1074
24. Kearney 1062
25. Columbus (Columbus Scotus) 1054
26. Fremont 1026
27. Papillion-LaVista South 999
28. North Platte 925
29. Elkhorn 824
30. Ralston 766
31. South Sioux City 747
32. Lincoln Pius X 724

This proposal would then add the following to A
33. Hastings 724
34. Scottsbluff 703
35. Lexington 606
36. Beatrice 587
37. Blair 514
38. Omaha Skutt Catholic 512
39. Grand Island Northwest 510
40. Alliance 467

Gering also has 467, Gretna has 457. So, depending on next years enrollment one of those could "flip-flop" with Alliance for the last A spot.

I assume they would then move 8 from C to B which would be these programs
1. West Point-Beemer 196
2. Milford 195
3. Conestoga 194
4. Raymond Central 193
5. Minden 192
6. Syracuse 190
7. Central City 186
8. Centennial 181

Depending on next years enrollment, one of these programs could "flip-flop" with Centennial, 9. Norfolk Catholic 176, 10. HTRS/Pawnee City 169,
11. Red Cloud/Blue Hill 168

Once again assuming they would move 8 up from D into C, it would be these programs:
1. Aquinas 109
2. Stanton 106
3. Palmyra 106
4. Southwest 106
5. East Butler 105
6. Medicine Valley/Maywood 104
7. Heartland 103
8. Thayer Central 102

These programs could "flip-flop" with several of the above mentioned schools. 9. Elkhorn Valley 101, 10. Hemingford 101, 11. Sutton 101, 12.
North Platte St. Patrick's 100, 13. Sutherland
100, 14. Ponca 99, 15. Howells 96, 16. Clearwater-Elgin 96

This would be the first step towards going to a three class system.

Take a look at the Class D districts now. Look at all of the open weights. Now then take the 8 largest schools out of Class D and how many opens will you have at the Class D districts then? I say if you are going to change it, then just go to one class because you are already moving will beyond enrollment parity which is why there is more than one class in the first place. So if enrollment parity doesn't matter then there should just be one class. Also if it is good for wrestling then it has to be good for football and basketball and track and all of the other sports, because remember enrollment parity doesn't matter. the NSAA won't like going to one class or even 3 classes for that matter because they won't make as much money on their state tournament with fewer people attending. I think you will also start to see more schools dropping wrestling or else merging with other schools because they can't be competitive.

Why do you have to mess with D?

Trying to compare wrestling to football, basketball etc is ridiculous. Its apples and oranges-completely different sports. As much as we like to talk about "teams" in wrestling this is an individual sport where the size of the school is essentially irrelevant. And since we know the NSAA won't ever go to a one-class system, lets just leave that notion out of it.

It will go 40 Class A schools, 48 Class B schools, and then divide the rest evenly into C and D. If it is an odd #, there would be 1 more class D school. So it looks like the 8 biggest schools are being taken out of C but because of the half and half part, really only losing 4 schools. Is my logic correct? Lets say there are 170 schools to divide for c and d... that would be 85 schools in c and 85 in d (roughly 21 schools per district). If I subtract 8 schools, we're down to 162 schools, which means 81 schools in class c, which is roughly 20 schools per district. You don't water c and d down as much as you might think.........

From NSAA February Bulletin issue:
FF. Proposal Activities manual Pg's 12,13.
Schools registered for wrestling are divided into four classes.
1. Based on combined enrollment grades 9-11
2. 40 largest schools = Class A
3. Next 48 schools = Class B
4. Remaining schools will be divided evenly into Classes C & D.
*All four Class A Districts will now have 10 teams in each District.

Vote: For= 71
Against= 51
Abstain= 54

Also a vote that passed was this. "For seeding wrestlers at the district wrestling tournament, only those matches wrestled, as part of a team's 30-point varsity schedule will be considered." Am I missing something or isn't this already in place?

Gering and Alliance were both A before, yes?

Ok, so the aforementioned scenario is accurate for A & B only.

Gering and Alliance have both been A at various points throughout history.

Assuming no schools are added or deleted, the new classification structure would be as follows:

A -- 40
B -- 48
C -- 64-65
D -- 67-66

I do know that Yutan will probably add wrestling next year, and there could be other changes with possible consolidations either adding or taking away from the number.

The new C & D...
C
1. Norfolk Catholic 176
2. HTRS/Pawnee City 169
3. Red Cloud/Blue Hill 168
4. St. Paul 166
5. Grand Island Central Catholic/Heartland Lutheran 166
6. Mitchell 161
7. Madison 160
8. Bishop Neumann 158
9. Chase County 156
10. Laurel-Concord/Coleridge 155
11. Hastings St. Cecilia 154
12. Fort Calhoun 154
13. Ord 152
14. Sargent/Burwell 152
15. Battle Creek 151
16. Lincoln Christian 147
17. North Bend Central 147
18. Tekamah-Herman 146
19. David City 145
20. Bruning-Davenport/Deshler 145
21. Kimball 144
22. Crofton 144
23. Gibbon 142
24. Ainsworth 140
25. Arlington 140
26. Perkins County 138
27. Wood River 138
28. Hershey 138
29. Centura 137
30. Bennington 135
31. Wisner-Pilger 135
32. Louisville 134
33. Wilber-Clatonia 133
34. Southern Valley 133
35. Fillmore Central 132
36. Creighton 131
37. Kearney Catholic 125
38. West Holt 124
39. Tri County 124
40. Bayard 121
41. Doniphan-Trumbull 121
42. Hartington Cedar Catholic 120
43. Wakefield 120
44. Southern 118
45. Lutheran High Northeast 118
46. Oakland-Craig 117
47. Bridgeport 116
48. West Point Central Catholic 116
49. Neligh-Oakdale 116
50. Ravenna 115
51. Plainview 114
52. Malcolm 114
53. Randolph 113
54. Morrill 113
55. Harvard/Clay Center 111
56. Tecumseh 110
57. Aquinas 109
58.Stanton 106
59.Palmyra 106
60.Southwest 106
61.East Butler 105
62.Medicine Valley/Maywood 104
63.Heartland 103
64.Thayer Central 102
65.Elkhorn Valley 101

D
1. Hemingford 101
2. Sutton 101
3. North Platte St. Patrick's 100
4. Sutherland 100
5. Ponca 99
6. Howells 96
7. Clearwater-Elgin 96
8. High Plains Community 94
9. Pender 92
10. Franklin 92
11. Elm Creek 92
12. Fullerton 91
13. Osmond 91
14. Ansley/Arcadia 91
15. Garden County 89
16. Loup City 89
17. Shelton 89
18. Friend 88
19. Wilcox-Hildreth 87
20. Weeping Water 85
21. Archbishop Bergan 84
22. Nebraska Christian 84
23. Cross County 83
24. Newman Grove 82
25. Alma 82
26. Overton 81
27. Crawford 81
28. Axtell 79
29. Arapahoe 77
30. Pope John 77
31. Humphrey St. Francis 76
32. Maxwell 76
33. Osceola 74
34. Elwood 73
35. Scribner-Snyder 73
36. Amherst 73
37. Hitchcock County 70
38. Dundy County 70
39. Palmer 70
40. Callaway 70
41. Sandhills (Thedford) 70
42. Freeman 69
43. Anselmo-Merna 68
44. Eustis-Farnam 68
45. Winside 67
46. Wauneta-Palisade 65
47. Cambridge 64
48. Pleasanton 60
49. Dorchester 60
50. McCool Junction 60
51. Rock County 59
52. Minatare 59
53. Meridian 57
54. Loomis 57
55. Cedar Rapids 56
56. Kenesaw 56
57. Banner County 54
58. Greeley-Wolbach 51
59. Arnold 51
60. Sumner-Eddyville-Miller 51
61. Lindsay Holy Family 48
62. Bertrand 45
63. Mullen 45
64. Hay Springs 40
65. Hyannis 36
66. Sioux County 26

Total enrollment in class D would be 4789, more than 500 fewer than just the top 3 in class A.

This is not a done deal. Many of the schools pass in issues on the 1st vote however want to wait until the spring meeting to hear the issues from both sides. Also we are not going to three classes. There is nothing on the agenda and no other sports want to cut back. Each school is given an equal vote and there are very few class D schools or for that matter very few class C schools that want to change. Don't look for this to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Alexander_Delarge_655321:
Gering and Alliance were both A before, yes?

Alliance was Class A with in the last 10 yrs and i think Gering was around that time also.

Why wouldn't Class C and Class D want to change? I think this is a good idea for all wrestling classes. Alliance, Scottsbluff, Gering used to be Class A, but remember about all of the new Class A schools in the Omaha and Lincoln area in the last few years.

You won't see wrestling cut back to 3 classes anytime soon, if ever. If anything, NSAA will ADD a 5th/6th class (C-1/C-2 and D-1/D-2) as they did with basketball, football and volleyball before they cut classes.

They want as many state qualifiers as possible for a number of reasons (mo money, mo kids who can call themselves state qualifiers/medalists/champions, etc.).

As for the current proposal, I think the only objections will come from the Class A schools that don't seem to think there is a problem with the current setup (and, just for the record, there is IMO). Those opinions will be outweighed by the Class B schools that would like to get Omaha Skutt out of the class, and I think there are enough D schools that would like to reduce the size of their districts (19 per district) to go back to 16-man brackets (although none of the districts likely will field a full 16-man bracket). The only schools I see objecting to the change are those who are on the bubble between classes (B up to A, C up to B, D up to C).

If wrestling continues to grow, the next move will probably be to make A and B 48 schools each, and after that a move to five classes, all with 48 schools. There are 219 schools in wrestling this year -- Yutan would make 220 next year -- leaving you 20 schools short of the 240 needed for five 48-school classes.

As Dennis Miller would say -- Of course, that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by JUST-A-FAN:
This is not a done deal. Many of the schools pass in issues on the 1st vote however want to wait until the spring meeting to hear the issues from both sides. Also we are not going to three classes. There is nothing on the agenda and no other sports want to cut back. Each school is given an equal vote and there are very few class D schools or for that matter very few class C schools that want to change. Don't look for this to happen.

I'll bet you a hundie and raise you 5 that it does happen. And I will definitely be campaigning for it.

Well, well, well, HB....you should always do your homework, my man. If you look at the way the proposal was written, it is fraught with a ton of faulty logic that can be refuted with a little data. Whatever happened to legislation being driven by data? Whatever happened to that. Basically the proposal by Auburn was by a coach and an admin that has a great 8th and 7th grade class. They would like to have a chance to win the whole thing before those kids graduate.....as is, they likely won't.

Before this thing is voted on, I plan to throw my actuary hat on to see what the data shows. One thing it shows right off hand, however, is that class A state qualifiers average around 68% win record. The other classes combined have about 73%, and the other classes probably don't have as many "repeat matches" as exist in class A. Any way you look at it, this deviation is pretty close, not one that would show the disparity that has been indicated previously.

In fact, football in class A (state playoff teams) win % was well below the other classes. Nobody is clamoring for a change there????? And you say it is simply because of individual vs team sports????? Wow, I don't see it that way. Maybe the w/l thing can be attributed to parity in any case...ever think about that?

What gets me is that this thing was voted on right....well with a little research, I have found that most coaches weren't even aware of the vote, and most coaches didn't have a chance to lodge their opinion on the vote...why would that be?

The foundation of sports in Nebraska was founded around an enrollment system. This much is true. What people didn't want was a school with 2500 competing against a school with 200 kids (you get the drift). The theory is that a school with 2500 has more kids that can participate and a better chance to have better teams......Follow.

OK so when there became too many teams in the present four class system...what was done? I tell you...we added C-2 and D-2....and again, nobody complained about the watered down system. People liked the increased opportunity for kids. Well over the years....wrestling has grown time and time again. Nobody said one word about adding a class....it became....let's reorganize.

I could go on and on, HB, but I will tell you that the Data is going to be served and the vote will be one based on logic and not on people wanting "more and better action".....

When we get the numbers all together, then let's look them over to see what they tell us. Let's see how many kids are out in each of the teams that offer wrestling. Let's look at how many teams fill rosters and let's look at a ton of data that will tell us what to do. Then let's make a decision. I think we can all live with that.

And then let's see about making sure that we don't just pull wrestling out of the state matrix. Certainly, track and other sports, can be held accountable for the same model as is proposed here.

Well, I guess it is time to do the numbers baby........

If you listen to the archive from this past year's Boys Town tournament, I talked specifically about this issue and I said within 5 years Class A would be 40 teams. As much as no one wants to say this is primarily a Skutt issue, it really is. There's no question that most want them out of B. It reminds of what happened with the Nebraska football program in the early 1990s. When TO got the program so powerful that no one could compete with them, the NCAA and conference changed the rules to stymie their success. When Skutt scores 250 points this year and has about 8 state champions, what is the NSAA going to do? I believe that the domination will cause enough people to make the 40 team thing happen. Going to 40 teams gives us the best of both worlds-a fuller and better Class A and Skutt competing against teams that can draw from the same talent pools as they do. IMO its a win-win situation for fans, small schools and wrestling in the state. And once again, wrestling is a unique sport. What's wrong with legislating change in one sport? I don't see a problem with it.