Change the ruling so if one does the back-flip, they are DQ'd.

i say just keep it legal...ppl need to learn to not hit moves they cant hit, or practice them. this sport is not called rolling around on a mat, its called WRESTLING! if ppl are so afraid about gettin hurt, GO OUT FOR ANOTHER SPORT! go play basketball

Another solution they could have done for the rest of the year.

They could have treated it like stalling. Just a warning, then award the points if it keeps happening.

Tell me if this is correct. If a wrestler continues to do this throughout a match under the new rule, there is absolutely nothing the ref can do about it. Even if a wrestler keeps attempting it? Will this be a refs decision on how to handle it? Can he treat it like stalling?

This rule only covers the backflip counter, correct?

Wrestlers will still be allowed to forward somersault and grab an ankle in an attempt to gain a stalemate, right?

Brent Foxhoven FB tried it again at the D.C. West Invite and the new rule was used

I think Antler Fan hit it a little there. If the guy that shot is aggressive and the opponent goes to flip and then attacks the body that could be messy, you could tackle the head and shoulders in the air and I would not want to see that. I hate to say it but I think they are doing the right thing in at least addressing it.....If you are going to address it though make it illegal and make sure all the coaches stop this immediately if you so strongly believe it is going to cause injuries. Don't leave any more decisions on judgement, I don't think the officials want to have to sort through this either. Another half-you know what effort from our boys in Lincoln again.....man, just make a call!

It was a National Ruling.

Could the state have stepped in and just made it illegal or do they have to do it the way the National Federation says?

A couple of thoughts. First, this is not an NSAA Ruling. It comes from the National Federation. Second, if we are going to make a rule I think it should be for one of three reasons. First and foremost, the safety of the wrestlers. Second, a rule should attempt to eliminate an advantage that a wrestler may have in a particular position. For example, the locked hands rule does very little to make the sport safer for anyone. But if we didn't have it the wrestler in the top position would have a definite advantage over the wrestler on the bottom.
Third, rules can prevent a wrestler from using the rules to gain an advantage. For example, several years ago we passed a rule that if a wrestler on his back calls time out the offensive wrestler is awarded the near fall points he has earned, or is about to earn, plus a bonus point. In addition to that, if a wrestler calls a second time out his opponent gets the option of restarting the match on his feet or in either top or bottom position. The third time out ends the match as an injury default. Prior to these rules a wrestler on his back could call time out because of an "injury" and was given a free pass off his back and gain a little bit of recovery time. And he could call time out as many times as he wanted, just so he didn't exceed his 1.5 minutes of injury time. This quirk allowed him to use the rules to gain an advantage.

The back flip rule is a giant step backward. If my opponent had me on my back he had a definite advantage, which he had worked to produce. So, if I used the rules to overcome his advantage (such as I could do until recently) I was unfairly taking an advantage away from him that he had earned. If my opponent is able to pick my leg up he is definitely in a position of advantage, which he has earned. It is unfair that I can attempt a back flip and be rewarded by being able to gain a fresh start while my opponent has the advantage that he earned taken away from him.

I have no problem with outlawing the move. It can be dangerous and I believe more and more wrestlers will be attempting to use it in order to get out of a bad position.

I'm going to start another thread called tech fall rules and will be very interested in your opinions about a knee-jerk rule change that I think I would like to see.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank Ryan,

"Brent Foxhoven FB tried it again at the D.C. West Invite and the new rule was used"

After Brent hit the backflip Saturday, the official that was working the match stopped me before the final round and informed me that if he attempted the backflip in the finals, he would rule it as unsportsmanlike conduct because he knows the move is potentially dangerous and therefore would be intentionally creating a potentially dangerous situation.

What's next? Are they going to make it illegal to tackle in football because it could potentially hurt the ball carrier?

quote:

"Brent Foxhoven FB tried it again at the D.C. West Invite and the new rule was used"

After Brent hit the backflip Saturday, the official that was working the match stopped me before the final round and informed me that if he attempted the backflip in the finals, he would rule it as unsportsmanlike conduct because he knows the move is potentially dangerous and therefore would be intentionally creating a potentially dangerous situation.

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I ran it by Darin, he said not to take it that far, just call it as they Ruled.

So basically there is absolutely nothing that can be done if it happens repeatedly. I know this is more than likely a purely hypothetical situation, but what if the same wrestler attmepts it multiple times in one match?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ndb65,

MAtcop I understand what you said but still isn;t it up to the ref on the mat what he calls so if a ref lets the first one go then calls the next unsportsmanlike there is nothin anyone could do about it anyway its a judgement call

this is absolutely rediculous. high school wrestling is evolving into a non contact sport with every little rule change. it's a tough sport and there will be contact and there will be injuries. that's the risk a wrestler takes when he steps on the mat. high school wrestling needs to evolve to college rules not completely run away from them

Justanotherwrestlingfan I must disagree with you on this point the move in question is very dangerous for a high school wrestler to try you could break your neck if not done correctly, as far as making it a non contact sport even football has outlawed the chop block and spearing and various other hits that used to be legal when I played high school football for the safety of the players

quote:

MAtcop I understand what you said but still isn;t it up to the ref on the mat what he calls so if a ref lets the first one go then calls the next unsportsmanlike there is nothin anyone could do about it anyway its a judgement call

Mark

Yes, it is. But speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to exceed my authority. I don't think the move should be ruled against...(but it isn't my decision)

I don't think too may would try it...and now, there is nothing to stop him from doing it anytime he likes.

I agree...there are a lot of other counters for the single leg out there that carry a mere fraction of the risk of injury involved. Sure, the backflip is more entertaining, but not necessary. You can score in basketball without a 360 degree reverse slam...you can score a touchdown in football without doing a summersault into the endzone...etc...

Hey, I think the back-flip counter to the single leg looks cool just like the next guy...but think about how easy it would be NOT to hit it just right and land on your head...or not complete the full flip and snap your spine.

Sure there is risk in wrestling...but shouldn't there be limits to how much risk? Sure, you can talk about too much control over what you are allowed to do...that you should have the right to take risk...but at what cost?...It's just like the seat belt law...or the helmet law...we bitch about the law...but when someone dies because they didn't buckle up...or didn't wear the helmet...we shake our heads and say what a pity it was...we don't say(well I hope not anyway) "They deserved it because they CHOSE not to wear a helmet or not to wear the seatbelt." What typically happens is we think it's a travesty that we're not allowed to do certain things or forced to do certain things...then do a 180 when the result of our defiance results in injury or even death.

This is only one mans opinion...but that's what this forum is for...but I for one feel that the risk with the back flip single-leg counter is far too risky when there are so many other effective old-school counters out there...(turn & mule-kick, peel hands to kick down, wizzer, front headlock, or lateral drop...just to name a few.

I only know that if my son tries that move, he will be grounded for a very long time. Sure he won't get a standing ovation for his counter, but he'll be around for his next match and I won't lose any more hair or have a heart attack.

I just don't want this to lead to a post on here titled "Tragedy in ________" with someone else's child.

I'm sure I'll get plenty of opposition on my views...and that's o.k....it's your right...but bottom line to me is that you have to wonder if the risk is worth the entertainment value when there are other way to get out of a simple single-leg...on the other hand...times are changing...but at what cost?

I think the move should be ruled illegal due to the potential for injury as the referee would not be able to stop it in time to prevent injury should it be poorly executed or countered - similar to why a suplex was ruled illegal. I'd imagine that a second attempt to use a potentially dangerous move would be unsportsmanlike conduct. The question is can you warn a wrestler before the match even starts that if he hits the move it will be ruled unsportsmanlie conduct?

Not according to Darin.