Ok, sorry it took so long to do this. I live on campus at UNO and have not been able to look up results until today. Jason Carlin from GO Wrestling (Creighton Prep) is the wrestler you are all looking for. I've seen his name before, but I do not remember where (I'm horrible with names). After running a Google, I found out he was one match from medaling at State at 152.

quote:

Originally posted by Red Dawg:
I wish Cooper would not talk like that and just admit he got caught. Craig, please look up this kids name from the tourny and let us all know so we can watch him in the future, Thanks.

What are you talking about that Cooper is talking like that, I don't think that there is anything wrong in what he told me yesterday, he did get caught but at Benningtonj even I will admit thaty it was all messed up (the pairing).

As far as I know there was nothing wrong with the pairings. If you know of anything wrong based on facts let me know and I will investigate. It just sounds like someone making excuses.

Stat boy you werent even there, stop talking all this smack about different wrestlers until you actually wrestle

quote:

Originally posted by pintowin2:
Stat boy you werent even there, stop talking all this smack about different wrestlers until you actually wrestle

I feel I am not talking smack I think that I am just adding to the info that you guys know and know that it is all straightend out we can end this topic.

A couple of quick responses so I can get back to mixing the ingredients! Hey Chuck is MR. REFEREE these days with leadership in this area. He should lead by example, Jay wears a headgear or he doesn't wrestle - simple! That would eliminate the cauliflower ear! Of course we could all get some broccoli and make a salad…Please pass the ranch!

Back to the Free and Greco deal. Hey, Kevin Jackson once said that you didn't have to be in shape to wrestle Free and Greco. You just have to be good at countering, stalling....and know how to be on top. Kevin said, to a group of coaches that he reduced matches to only 20-30 total seconds of real wrestling. So guys can talk all they want about shape. If you are smart, you don't have to be in shape. Sure, shape helps, but not mandatory!

As long as we are talking free and Greco, it is all but dead in Nebraska. There were less than 30 kids at Albion and only about 75 or so at Bennington. Now this is the extent (so far) in ALL of Nebraska. We don't even have tourneys out west any more........So, this is suppose to make a rip roarin state tournament??????? Kids are going to get next to NO matches at state. If you don't go out of Nebraska, you aren't going to get quality matches. You can go to the state meet and pay your 40 bucks or so and get one or no matches. Pretty expensive State Medal, wouldn't you say? MOST kids' club tournaments are WAY bigger with better medals and trophies!

If 525 is all out for all this high level competition, is your son going to wrestle on the Junior duals or try out for them? Of course there is that one kid at the same weight. My guess is that he will do anything to get away from Vacanti.....
The last time I looked…neither Franklin or Sherer wrestled at Fargo.....now that tells you something about how much they are looking for top notch action…

My wrestling pedigree is long and distinguished…I know how to get in the mix and create a fantastic recipe for success!

One last thing Fred, HOW many Class C state champions are accomplished Free Stylers????????

The numbers aren't great at the freestyle tournaments; that's true.

The wrestlers who do show up; are typically wrestlers that make it to the state tournament. The quality of wrestling has been pretty decent at the freestyle tournaments I have been to; if not the quantity of entrants.

What's the solution? I don't know, but I offer the following true story:

Gross is without a head coach right now; and one of the assistants (Jeremy Nielson) has been holding freestyle practices and bringing kids to freestyle tournaments (Blair a couple of weeks back, Bennington last week, Creighton Prep this week, Kearney next week). Gross has brought about 4 to 5 wrestlers to several freestyle tournaments. Only one was a varsity wrestler. The others are trying to make varsity next year. I applaud them and their efforts.

I would think other schools that have a head coach would bring more wrestlers.

If you want to better yourself as a wrestler; this is a good opportunity. The more time on the mat; the better. These tournaments give you mat time against very good wrestlers.

The state tournament will be larger than these other tournaments by far. One major reason that numbers were down this year at Bennington was because of the tournament in Council Bluffs, and the one in Missouri. When I figured in those kids that went to those tournaments, because there are no longer qualifiers for state, I feel our numbers would have been up this year.

If you want to practice Freestyle or Greco, Bennington holds practices on Mondays and Westside Wrestling Club holds them on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Thats where Andy goes.

If I remember correctly, Andy was a State Champ in Class C this year. I think he just won the FILA Cadet National Championship in Greco and Runner-Up in Freestyle. And wait...let me think...ahh yes, I'm pretty sure he is going to Prague, Czech Republic this summer to wrestle on the USA team there for Greco.

"Summer wrestling makes Winter champions." - Dan Gable

Is the state tournament next weekend the only way to qualify for regionals or is there other tournaments to qualify?

Hey Wrasslin' - Kevin's son wrestles for our freestyle/greco club. When he drops in tonight for practice, I'll ask him about that quote. I'll get back to you on the validity of your claim. I'll bet you make have taken that out of context just a bit.

Craig it is funny that the only guy you can name is your brother. So you only have 1 person to strengthen your case. So I have a few other questions. I would like to know why none of our Junior or Cadet dual teams have ever placed in the top 8 in the nation the last few years despite having a host of Nationally ranked competitors? Andy Pokorny, Matt Vacanti, Vic Weideman, Jeremy McCoy, DaVaughan Perkins, Q Cottle, among others. Arguably we have the most nationally ranked wrestlers we have ever had (according to USA Wrestling Magazine) yet our dual teams get drilled? This isin't a good sign for the growth of freestyle and greco in Nebraska! Why is that? We have the talent…are we missing something with coaching? How many coaches in the state have National rankings or experience in Free and Greco? Might be a good place to start talking!

Secondly, the state tournament is really a shell when you talk about a "STATE TOURNAMENT". Last year their were slightly over 200 who showed up to the event. Now if you count the fact that this covers divisions from 5 on up to 12th, this isn't much of a showing. 10 years ago it was a tournament of 600 or better. So, again, where are the kids????????????

This past weekend at Prep. There were more exhibitions at the GO tournament than regular matches. You paid your 12 bucks to buy a medal. Might as well go to the awards store and make up a really good looking one if that is all that you are after. Additionally, there was NO big tourney in Council Bluffs to divert the wrestlers. What excuse do we have this time?

So since we are having a state tournament lets see the premier match of the weekend! I want Jay Sherer and Matt Vacanti to battle it out. Last time Jay and Matt wrestled, it was an OT match. But I think that it will not even be close this time.

That is if Chuck will bring his headgear and let the boy wrestle!

I feel that for the numbers in our state, we do quite well in team competition. You have to take into consideration populations. Pensylvania, for example, has over seven times the population. Therefore, with 17 man teams, Nebraska should only win 2 matches against Pennsylvania. Since we are the 38th largest state in the nation, placing higher than 24th in a 32-team tournament is out-performing other states.

As far as going to tournaments and getting exhibitions, I feel that there is nothing wrong with that. I feel that you go to most tournaments to get experience. Obviously it is nice to get medals, but the experience is what counts the most. If you watched some of our exhibitions at Bennington, some of the best matches were exhibitions. These guys did match up in the same weight groups, but they wrestled each other to get the experience.

Rather than rag on numbers or quality, lets just let them wrestle.

As far as qualifying for regionals, you must place in the top four to qualify for regionals. Otherwise, if there are less than four placers, you can contact the state and try to get in the open spot. I wouldn't recomend taking that risk. You run a huge risk of having all four places filled. If there are other guys doing the same thing, the state would have to decide who, if anyone gets the spot.

Well, I hope to see you all this weekend. UNK is a great facility to host this tournament. See you in Kearney.

Response to Wrasslin,

Pinmachine is correct, we had over 80 entries (that I counted) at Bennington and at least 50 or more would have came if the Midwest Classic was not moved to the same weekend. In addition, more kids went to the Southern Plains Regionals that normally came to Bennington in the past. I am sure that we also lost a few that did not come because they no longer have to go to a qualifier to go to state. Had it not been for these tournaments and changes in qualifications our tournament may have been larger than last year, which was one of our best years as far as numbers. Even though the numbers were down most of the kids got at least 2-3 matches and 4-6 matches if they did both styles. That is as good as or better than any single day for a high school tournament and better than a lot of kids tournaments. In addition, the quality of the matches was very good.

You have to look past the total size of the tournament because you don’t wrestle everyone. Rather, look at the number of matches that you get and the quality of the matches. We have been to tournaments that have in excess of 1500 kids but only get 2 or 3 matches against average at best kids. We were at Dana and got 7 matches in (combined freestyle and Greco), but the tournament only had about 80 kids. We were at Creighton Prep and got 4 (3 plus 1 exhibition) matches against above average kids and the tournament only had about 80 kids also. I would rather go to a tournament with 80 kids and get 4-7 matches against quality kids than a tournament with 1500 and get 2-3 against average to below average kids.

It amazes me that people think they can just go to state and be successful without any freestyle or Greco experience. Unfortunately that may be possible since a lot of other people are doing the same now. However, that will hurt them significantly as they go on to the Regional and National level.

It disappoints me that we are trying to create more opportunities in freestyle, but people choose to support out of state tournaments rather than our in state tournaments. If we do not support our tournaments they will not be able to continue. I hope to have our freestyle tournament next year, but we will reevaluate it and make that decision next year. If our numbers drop any more we certainly will not have it in the future. These will be the same people that will complain if we lose our tournaments and take away the opportunities for their kids to wrestle freestyle.

I understand they are going out of state to get quality competition, but there are other weekends that have similar quality tournaments that you can still get that quality competition and still support the growth of your sport in state.

I do not know why the Albion numbers were down, but I suspect some of the same reasons since it was on Sunday, the same weekend of the Bennington tournament. I expect close to the same numbers at our state freestyle tournament as last year because those clubs that went out of state are planning on being at the state tournament. The Prep tournament numbers were not bad considering there were only 3 age divisions and Massey had a freestyle camp the same day that several kids went to.

No, the state tournament is not 40 bucks or so as you say. The cost for one style is $15 just like many other tournaments in this state. If you want in the second style it is only $10 more which averages to $12.50 per tournament, about average for any tournament any time in the state. The difference is the quality of competition. Just ask Coach Bauer why he wants and tries so hard to keep the state tournament at UNK. It is because the best kids in the state are there. No, most wrestlers will not get only one match. If you do one style you will most likely get about 2-4 matches and if you do two styles it could be about 4-7 matches. Again the quality of competition is very good and you get as many or more matches than any other tournament through out the season. Of course, there will be exceptions and some of the weight classes on the extreme ends, but we still work with them to get mat time. In addition, the USA medals are now custom made, are very nice looking, and the Triple Crown trophy is one of the best looking trophies in the state.

You say how many class C wrestlers freestyle? Well if more did then they would have better opportunities to succeed in class C or any other class. By the way 4 of the class C state champions, which I know of, have had a significant amount of freestyle experience. Each one of those wrestlers will either be a multiple state champion or are underclassmen and will have the opportunity to become a multiple state champion. That is a high percentage of class C state champions considering the number of wrestlers in class C that actually do freestyle.

If your wrestling pedigree is long and distinguished as you say and you are interested in building the sport of wrestling in the state of Nebraska you would understand all of this and support what USA is trying to accomplish, not criticize it because all your criticism does is hurt the sport.

quote:

If 525 is all out for all this high level competition, is your son going to wrestle on the Junior duals or try out for them? Of course there is that one kid at the same weight. My guess is that he will do anything to get away from Vacanti.....
The last time I looked…neither Franklin or Sherer wrestled at Fargo.....now that tells you something about how much they are looking for top notch action…

My wrestling pedigree is long and distinguished…I know how to get in the mix and create a fantastic recipe for success!

One last thing Fred, HOW many Class C state champions are accomplished Free Stylers????????

Wrasslin

Can't speak for Sherer, but Franklin wrestled on the cadet dual team the last 2 years instead of going to fargo. He has expressed an interest in going on the Junior dual team this year. Franklin has never ran away from anyone, but he knows that he can't beat Vacanti...duh!!! He would wrestle him if the opportunity arose. Franklin wrestled behind Vacanti on the dual team last year...in fact I still tease Alan P. about not asking us for a wrestle off. He knows he isn't at Vacanti's level. Franklin will be at 130 this weekend...so make some phone calls and bring all you got. Losing just makes him better.

Would like to know your recipe for success. If you have one.

A better question to ask is...How many multiple state champs in Nebraska wrestled freestyle and greco in the off season?

Had my son not wrestled in the off season he would not have won state this year as a sophmore. I'm sure others would attest to that too. Could he have eventually been a state champ?...Yes...maybe as a senior which takes us back to the original question.

Hope to see ya at the state tournament...we could use some more helpers with a lot of energy like yourself.

If freestyle and Greco are important to the high school community, why did the West (who had been the flagship of freestyle) totally abandon it?
In all reality, how much freestyle and Greco does any kid need unless he is going to wrestle it later on in his career? If you think about it, most people are seeing that in high school and in college, folk style is the way to go. Why worry about freestyle. In fact, even USA has bent to the will of folk style.

Here are some facts that are hard to refute. In a given summer a kid can go to a summer league, a team camp, and the state games for 2 to 3 hundred dollars. In that space, the kid can get 40 to 50 matches. To get that much in off season freestyle and Greco (Unless you are a wrestling God) you have to go to regionals, duals, state, Fargo for a grand total of $1200 or more. GUESS where kids and parents are leaning towards!

Reality is: Freestyle and Greco are all but dead in Nebraska. The state association might be better off just training the real fanatics, take them nation wide. It would be cheaper and require a lot less man-hours. To be honest, even those coaches and kids who would try free and Greco won't because they are intimidated by the constant changes in the sport every single year. The threat exists now, in moving toward a system, which makes every match, in fact, three matches in one. When you look closely at how the whole match looks, it is intimidating to the potential coach and athlete as well as anyone daring enough to run the scoring at the table.

The reality is that unless you are headed to the World or Olympic teams, you only need Folstyle! Sure some colleges would like to see you wrestle in the summer, which is mostly Free and Greco, but more and more National meets are becoming Folk style again! Only the elite need to be Freestyling and Greco! I still prefer boxers!

We are running a special this week on day old Ideas! 2 old tournaments for the price of one. We might even get a baker’s dozen to the state meet! I will have some extra head gear in my bag as well!

So lets define wrestling Free or Greco in the off season. Is it going to the state games? Or going to a few tournaments and wrestling a few matches like at Bennington? Or is it going to the National stage like Fargo? I have looked at the Class C results and here is what I see.

103 - Andy Pokorny, Bennington, def. Zach Adams, Norfolk Catholic, 18-0.
POKORNY - AA AT FARGO. ZACH ADAMS HASN'T BEEN TO FARGO OR ON A NATIONAL DUAL TEAM.

112 - Adam Quinn, Ainsworth, def. Emerson Negley, Lincoln Christian, 10-7.
NEITHER GUY HAS BEEN TO FARGO, BUT NEGLEY HAS WRESTLED SOME FREE.

119 - Dru Kastler, Ord, def. Jacob Hoyt, Ainsworth, 6-0.
KASTLER WENT TO THE DUALS BUT NOT FARGO. HOYT, NO FARGO OR DUALS

125 - Wesley Brammier, Syracuse, def. Brandon Gaines, Tekamah-Herman, 8-3.
NEITHER GUY DOES MUCH IN THE WAY OF FREESTYLE

130 - Dustin Franklin, Tekamah-Herman, def. Pat Lamkin, West Holt, 3-1 OT.
FRANKLING WENT TO DUALS, BUT NEITHER OF THEM WERE AT FARGO

135 - Casey Gubbels, Randolph, def. Josh Dotzler, Bennington, 14-6.
DON'T RECALL EITHER OF THESE GUYS WRESTLING MUCH FREE.

140 - Joey Koch, Thayer Central, def. Matt McManigal, Creighton, 13-4.
NO FREESTYLE HERE.

145 - Craig Degenhardt, Thayer Central, pinned Tyler Fraser, Red Cloud/Blue Hill, 3:29.
AND NONE HERE

152 - Jared Meister, Aquinas, def. Ryan Schledewitz, Hemingford, 8-6.
AND NONE HERE

160 - Andrew Daro, Aquinas, def. Anthony Hruska, David City, 3-0.
AND NONE HERE

171 - Taylor May, Chase County, def. Todd Kingston, North Bend Central, 7-3.
AT ONE TIME MAY WAS PRETTY GOOD, BUT HASN'T WRESTLED MUCH FREE LATELY. KINGSTON IS A DEFINITE NO.

189 - Jake Smith, Bennington, def. Brett Nickolite, Stanton, 4-2 OT.
SMITH IS JUST NOW GETTING INTO THE FREE SCENE, BUT WAS NOT WHILE AT BLAIR. NICKOLITE IS A NO.

215 - Matthew Kastl, David City, pinned Brian Johnson, Harvard/Clay Center, 5:21.
NO FREESTYLE HERE

275 - Eric Tighe, Madison, def. Jake Ludemann, Norfolk Catholic, 1-0.
NO FREESTYLE HERE.

So as you can see…you really don’t see much Free or Greco here and it certainly did not make that much difference in the outcomes on the folkstyle mat! SO get serious about defending a style that is difficult to teach and learn! IN addition, you must leave the state to get any real competition and that makes it an expensive style to wrestle!

Wrasslin,

We try to get the MS guys to wrestle as much freestyle and greco as they can. It seems to make our kids better on their feet. It also seems to make them better position wrestlers. However, guys who don't like it and won't wrestle it are expected to wrestle other folkstyle events when they can. We like to have our kids get 30 to 80 matches in the offseason.

Wrasslin,

You have some valid points, but I would like to comment on a few.

Kids need freestyle and greco to get more mat time....now with that being said, I will agree that in the last 4 to 5 years there have been more opportunities to wrestle folkstyle in the off season in Nebraska. These have come in the way of Leagues mostly...State games has been there a long time, but the leagues have really given the kids more folkstyle mat time in the off season. This is a good thing, but these leagues are made up of primarily Nebraska kids. To get matches with out of state kids we have the Maine exchange and Disney duals. The Disney Duals is relatively new, so in the past there wasn't much for national folkstyle competition. USA has also added kids/cadet nationals....the cadet part being the newest addition. We also have senior national, but thats just for seniors and not to develope kids coming up. We also now have the Brute which offers some folkstyle national competition. But you see, we haven't always had some of that folkstyle off season wrestling and yes I believe it hurts the numbers for freestyle and greco. Having said all that....the little ones junior high and under still don't have much for off season wrestling...so the only choice would be freestyle and greco. This is a great way to start their learning process and by the time they get to HS they can competively compete in both freestyle, greco and folkstyle taking advantage of all the different mat time opportunities. To say that freestyle and greco have no advantage to folkstyle wrestlers is incorrect....are you truely trying to say there is "no advantage?" USA realizes that there are more kids that want to folkstyle than freestyle and thats why they have taken a lead in offering some addition folkstyle tournaments. Nebraska hasn't always had a "folkstyle state"...this was added.

To end this I would like to say that my kids enjoy wrestling freestyle and greco better than folkstyle....so if for no other reason.....they chose to do it cause they like FS/GR better. Others kids might too if they would give it a try....and also help them in their folkstyle as well.

You have some valid points about money...everything comes down to that. If Nebraska USA was better funded....money wouldn't be an issue. So please come and support of touraments...folkstyle, freestyle and greco.....with those funds we can help alot of kids do whatever style they want.

I agree that for some kids...Free and Greco are good styles for them to wrestle. But as a state, I believe resources can be better spent on the massess by creating more Folkstyle events in the spring and summer! You can still take the elite kids to Fargo and such, even create a camp for them and then travel regionally and nationally to get matches!

But to really improve Nebraska wrestling...FOLKSTYLE Is the answer! Hsukerland should expand and do more in the spring and summer. Even have a state tournament at the end of the summer for all the guys! Keep the spring event for the little guys! That would be something to see!

I was wondering grapplinman...why you would defend a style of wrestling that you yourself would not have any part of? You work with Huskerland and have failed to pull freestyle or greco into that tournaments list of styles? Why is that? If it were such a great style...why not have a Huskerland sponsored tournament?

I believe you are just paying free and greco lip service so that you can stay politically correct in the state!