quote:

Originally posted by Cornfed:
the strategy is what makes duals interesting. otherwise we can just use the tournament results and do the math. just my 2 cents

I agree Cornfed. Watching the 2 Coaches make changes in their lineup trying to get the match up that benefits them the most then changing again when a suprise outcome of a match changes the complexity of the dual all make for a great experience.

I coached in a state with a state dual tournament (New Mexico). Unlike Minn., they had a team title for the dual and individual state meets. Most of the time the same team won both, but at times you would get different champions. They had the state duals the week after the ind. state meet. You qualified through the duals in your district, which wouldn't work here in NE. I didn't like the way the state duals were set up. What I think would be the best is that we do it like colleges do it. Have the state duals mid-season, put on by our coaches association. This would be a great fund raiser for our coaches association, and help promote our coaches association. The qualifier could be the two teams with the most returning points from each district meet. I know this isn't necessarily the best qualifying system, but it could be tweaked by the coaches association. It would have to be pretty much set before the start of the year to provide for scheduling. There are advantages and disadvantages however you do it.

Valid points RR & Cornfed. I just think that can take the outcome out of the wrestlers hands and put it in the coaches. Understanding that with either way, the kids have to go out and win the matches they're supposed to. I guess I'm just a little old school and like to just line it up and go head to head. I think the current method might set up a situation where it's better strategy to have one good wrestler avoid another. There are a lot of pros and cons.

it takes some impact freshman out of the equation but that is about the only way without extending the season 2 weeks to fit in a district qualifier.

quote:

Originally posted by Vbadger:
I coached in a state with a state dual tournament (New Mexico). Unlike Minn., they had a team title for the dual and individual state meets. Most of the time the same team won both, but at times you would get different champions. They had the state duals the week after the ind. state meet. You qualified through the duals in your district, which wouldn't work here in NE. I didn't like the way the state duals were set up. What I think would be the best is that we do it like colleges do it. Have the state duals mid-season, put on by our coaches association. This would be a great fund raiser for our coaches association, and help promote our coaches association. The qualifier could be the two teams with the most returning points from each district meet. I know this isn't necessarily the best qualifying system, but it could be tweaked by the coaches association. It would have to be pretty much set before the start of the year to provide for scheduling. There are advantages and disadvantages however you do it.

I doubt a midseason state dual tournament would be feasible in NE.

I would rather see the HSers do nothing but wrestle dual round robin formats during the regular season using these duals as qualifiers. I'm a big fan of dual tournaments for a number of reasons,
1) Typically, every wrestler gets the same amount of matches.
2) Wrestlers actually watch wrestling all day.
3) More challenging having to wrestle every hour or so vs. having extended periods of recovery time and could(in general) discourage large weight cuts(which in itself could add to increased participation).
4) It can help make more complete 3 period wrestlers who are trying to get a major, get a tech or keep the other wrestler from achieving.
5) Adds more to the team aspect of wrestling(esprit de corps) and would help drive wrestling programs(wrestlers and coaches) to improve the team.
6) Just more interesting(IMO), as a fan of wrestling.

The individual state tournament and subsequent team champions would still have its place, maybe have individual holiday tournaments as a precursor to state(like Midlands). In the end, I think that a state dual tournament could help to increase involvement and popularity in wrestling, which could only lead to even better things for wrestling in the state of NE.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Big D,

it seems like the dual tournament format is more friendly to spectators because you know where your team is wrestling at and you dont have several team members wrestling simultaneously. the guaranteed matches really help develop the younger guys that go 2 and out in an individual tournament. its just more fun to coach duals too.

As a guy who came into the sport from outside the mat, I can say that the tournament format is generally the most confusing for the non-wrestling fan, mostly in the scoring area. You get points for advancing, bonus points for pins, nearfalls, etc., plus more points for winning in one round compared to the other, etc., etc. The average sports fan can't keep up with all that.

The nice thing about a dual format, from a non-fan's perspective, is that you know, up front, where your team stands against their opponent. You don't have to figure advancement points, placing points, half-point bonuses, yadda yadda yadda. Six for a pin, three for a decision, etc. So easy, a basketball fan can keep up with it.

Each format has its points of excitement, too. The dual brings coaching strategy more into the equation, while tournaments give fans a chance to play the "if-then" game, depending on how many kids are involved that can affect the outcome of the team standings.

I do hope those in the delegation continue to see the positives of this and give it a stamp of approval. It would be a wonderful shot in the arm for our sport.

lets just take the top 2 teams from districts, i know this isnt ideal by any means, have an 8 team duals tournament for each class on the thursday that state starts and crowd the state tournament down to 2 days. 2- 4 team pools and a 4 team line bracket for the finals. cuts down on travel expenses for schools to go twice and with 16 man brackets 3 days to wrestle a state tournament is too long anyway. get it started and fine tune as it develops.

If there was a way the state duals could be held the same weekend as the individual state...there's no way the duals should be first. The ultimate in wrestling for HS will always be winning the individual state title, thus should be first. No reason to have to beat the same guy twice. The duals would be a lot more fun for the kids after the hectic state individual tournament. A lot of pressure off the kids and they can just get after it in the duals.

I watched the documentary Takedowns and Fall the other day. In the film the dual tournament was beofre the individual tournament. Also every team competed in the qualifying for the tournament. They had sectionals, districts etc. to qualify. Their season is also a month longer to accomidate it. I think MN goes an extra month also. They wrestle theirs at the same time though.

having the duals the day after would probably get less objections. same number of days, same number of weigh-ins and a few more people would go support their team at the individual tournament if their kids were wrestling at dual state on saturday. more ticket sales cant be bad.

To whom it may concern. I was at the state school board convention and at the NSAA update seminar I asked the rep from the far west district (sorry I can't remember the name or district number) how it looked for our dual tournament. He is under the belief that we're requesting an all class champions dual tourney. Meaning take the four state champion teams and pit them against each other in a dual tourney. I could not convince him otherwise. (Refraining from personal comment at this point). He said he's not in favor of the tourney because then volleyball and basketball would make the same request. I just wanted to let you know that not all the NSAA reps are even clear about what the request is.

our ad has the same thing in his head. he voted against it. we are trying to get it across but it isnt going well.

At the risk of being hated, I have a thought. I do like the idea of having a State Dual Tournament. However, having only 6 wrestlers out it would be tough to get the opportunity to compete in it. What I would like to see the NSAA do instead of a State Dual Tournament is do an all class Super-State. To me it has more appeal to know who is the best all class wrestler. I know this has been talked about before, but just my opinion. Doesn't count for much.

I recommend a build it and they will come strategy. I do not think the NSAA has any concept of what a state dual tournament would be like. They will need to see it to conceptualize it. I propose that the NSWCA spearheads the effort like the NWCA has done on the colligate level. The National Duals at the colligate level has no affiliation to the NCAA. It is entirely put together by the NWCA. Have it on a Monday, Tuesday or Tuesday Wednesday in January so it would not greatly conflict with existing schedules. Invite the top eight teams based on placing from last season’s state tournament and returning points. I bet there are plenty of facilities and communities that would like to host such an event. There would probably be plenty of people who would volunteer to help put it together.

I believe that once the NSAA sees the earning potential after a couple of years they would jump all over it.

I was at the MN Coached Clinic several years ago and J Robinson had a session on marketing your wrestling program. He said when he started the university was going to stop charging gate for wrestling events. They said it cost too much to make the tickets. He asked them to take it over. A few years later they were pulling in a couple hundred thousand on gate money. The university wanted back in after that. He took his program it and built value and then the administration was on board. He built it and they came around.

Better yet - have the duals during the holiday break when there are the fewest conflicts with other tournaments.

It would have to be a venue that could hold 8 mats, so that you could have two classes going simulatenously and get the tournament done in one day.

Example:
A/D first round, 10 a.m.
B/C first round, 12 p.m.
A/D semis/cons semis, 2 p.m.
B/C semis/cons semis, 4 p.m.
A/D finals/3rds, 6 p.m.
B/C finals/3rds, 8 p.m.

One thing that would add to this - make it so that if your team qualifies for this, it doesn't count against their schedule points and it doesn't count toward a wrestler's official win-loss record when it comes to district seeding at the end of the year. That way, nobody has to alter their schedules or leave wrestlers home from another tournament.

It passed second round reading in district 1 today

how many wrestling conferences are in nebraska?

how many are currently doing conference dual tournaments?

See where I'm going with this?

I'm thinking a 2 class dual tournament. AB and CD. This would ensure that teams invited would have close to full squads.

Most conferences are doing doing dual tournaments and most again have same class or close to same....such as AB and CD.

Such as East Husker Conference....all CD schools.

Passed in District 2 yesterday. Anyone have answers on the other districts.