I've watched this thread with a lot of interest and I think both sides have a valid point, albeit one founded on personal agendas. From my experience as a coach in Class D, Class C, and now Class B I think I have as good a "grasp" on this subject as just about anyone.

In 2001 or 2002, our district (D-4) had 19 teams present in it. The 152 pound weight bracket actually had a bunny to get into the district tournament because there were 17 wrestlers at that weight! How many 152 pounders were in A-4 that year I'm not sure but I'll guess probably 8 for the sake of argument. I do know that this year I talked to a Class A assistant coach (formerly a Class D wrestler in high school, a state champion) and one of their Class A kids qualified by winning, losing in the semi's, then byeing into the consolations in an 8 man bracket. The coach was shaking his head in disbelief. Is this system right? No way!

With my experience in Class B (2 years) and C (1 year due to a co-op)I felt things were about right. The one thing I realized most from this experience is that difficulty changes from class to class in a given year. As a Class D/C coach, there were times when I would have loved to be in the other class and times when I was relieved to be wrestling where we were. It just depends on the year/class/weight. At first, I was worried about moving into C but once we began wrestling I didn't see a difference. Was C on a "down cycle" that year, possibly. I do know this, Class C/D bullets are as tough as any kids in the state rest assured although the level of depth varies considerably from year to year/weight to weight in D.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion Class D shouldn't have 70 some teams in it with four districts. The middle weights from about 135-160 are often overloaded. Something needs to be re-evaluated and tweaked. To me this isn't about O. Skutt/dodging them, I think it's great motivation for Class B schools because they've set the bar higher and have forced B school's to work harder to compete. Thus, the level of wrestling in B has improved in my opinion. Would a move to A do the same thing, I believe so with the upper echelon A teams raising the bar as well. It's natural. The bottom half, probably not. Thus, now you get back to the issue of depth.

As far as moving to a 1 class system, I struggle with this idea because I believe it will hurt the numbers of participants wrestling. As a coach, I can use the state tournament itself as a draw to "recruit" kids. When 8th graders see that 6-10 high school boys are going to state/placing every year if they work hard/pay their dues, I'm more apt to get that kid out for wrestling. We'll have four years to "develop" this kid and hopefully slip him down to state as a senior. A deserving honor/reward, for persevering through the four year learning curve he'll have to endure. As a coach, there is no better feeling than this. In a one class system, those kids won't have a chance. They'll quit as underclassmen. This isn't California, Nebraska doesn't have the population density to keep the sport growing if we begin to cut divisional classes. If a kid knows that they have no/very little shot at being successful good luck getting/keeping them out. Thus, the sport will suffer.

Just my thoughts/experiences. Does anyone know when the vote will take place this spring?

coach H.

Hey Granby, my man....LOL....where's my C NOTE? I noticed you shut your.......when you had to prove that I was wrasslin....and now here you are yet again! OH and the Data.....I love being a reading teacher cause the world is full of SELECTIVE readers...I through some Data out there, and you mysteriously didn't even see it...WOW! I think I probably have thrown out as much data as my illustrious counterpart in this debate, Ross.

Men, let's just go back and review what I am saying!

1. My argument isn't about whether MS or I want to DUCK Skutt....If I wanted to duck them I wouldn't wrestle them, and of course, I now have been lucky enough to win a couple of titles. If I retired tomorrow I would feel the luckiest and most blessed man alive. I'm sure Ross feels my titles are "tainted" as it were, but nobody in our program or associated with our program feels that Taint....

2. In reality, if Skutt moved up next year, it would probably be better for my team. I won't have the depth we had this year, but I do have quality at the top...so my motivation for my argument, again, has nothing to do with Skutt. We likely won't have the firepower to win it next year whatever the alignment is.

3. If you reread my posts from before (and not with a jaundiced eye) you can see that I don't like things being done off the cuff or in a kneejerk reaction. My position is that we take the approach of being well educated and then we make a decision that we can live with for the next 10 to 20 years.

4. In all reality....anything we say here in this forum and any debate from here on out is rather moot. The way the board of control operates is pretty simple. They will discuss it among themselves, they will vote, and the vote will be final. Nothing we say will sway that vote. They won't listen to presentations or outside lobbying at this point in time. In fact, most of them probably have their minds made up already.

5. NO matter what the vote is, and no matter how the alignment goes, I will wake up tomorrow (God willing) and the sun will be up in the sky and I will be thankful for everything I have. And I certainly won't cry about any of this. There are people to see and places to go in this world...and I plan to be headed in that direction.

And Granby.......I will have to live with the fact that I won't get my 100 ducketts and you will always have to eat crow......

Are you saying, Grapp, that the Board of Control actually THINKS about the decisions they make ahead of time?

Wow...who'da thunk it???

Sorry...just letting my natural anti-administration state of mind get the best of me.

quote:

Originally posted by HB:
You're wasting your breath Mike C. I've fought for 7 years to make the wrestling in the state better and now I realize I'm fighting a losing battle. Wrestling in this state is run by the good ol boys network. You won't win this battle. Lets just sit back and laugh at Class A like we've been doing for 7 years.

Nice tan boy's! But would you mind putting your shoes back on

Grapplinman,

I never thought that you, of all people, would be the proponent of "paralysis by analysis". I guess that shows what I know, which isn't much apparently.

Naw....I wouldn't go that far....LOL! I just don't want to jump into a viper den with Ross' sleeping goggles on.....LOL.

Let's do a little history here....just for the heck of it....

20 years ago...I was coaching in D and I didn't think about changing alignments and I didn't think that I was downtrodden because of "the system or the MAN"

10 years ago...I was coaching in A...Just got there and I can tell you that moving to 24 or 25 teams was wrong. WE "So Called" A coached agreed that we needed to move back to 32. At that time, the conditions in wrestling were much the same as they are today, but I don't recall anyone saying we should go to 40 or that we should even worry about it....

Today....Nothing has really changed...we have Skutt and we have a few King of the Hill folks crying for change. Now, all of a sudden, A is a reck and we need to do something about it in a hurry or anything that happens in A is a sham....

I have the state books back in '72,'73, and '74....you ought to see some of the records back then...and nobody was complaining. Back then they qualified 12 guys in A....why hasn't anyone thought of that? Maybe if we go back to this system, you won't see any losing records...I mean, it seems like a lot of this is about the ever shameful "losing record"

I just think the burden of proof on any change is for the person "wanting" change to prove there is a problem that basically sticks out like a sore thumb. Since I have been coaching in A, B, C, AND D......I haven't seen or heard of this sore thumb (the 32 to 40 thumb) until recently....WOW...so has that much changed?

Saw this quote today, thought it might be applicable...

In schools, treading water is no longer an option. School people must either propel themselves in some direction, be towed, or sink. ~Roland Barth

Off topic, but did anyone see this excerpt?

"We tell the kids it’s an individual sport," St. Edward assistant coach John Heffernan said

The measure failed to pass just as expected.

2. CLASS STATUS. In delaying proposals to expand Class A membership in football and wrestling, the board put into motion a study that could lead to a restructuring of the classification system. NSAA executive director Jim Tenopir went so far as to suggest the time may be nearing when six classes in some sports may be too many.

3. EIGHT IS ENOUGH. In adding medals and points for seventh- and eighth-place finishers at the state track meet, the board unwittingly invited similar requests from wrestling and swimming coaches down the road.