I don't think it's so much the number of teams in the district, it's how the districts are formed. Until a system that makes sense is put into place, the number of teams, in my opinion, is a non-issue. If class A were put into districts according to returning starters, returning state qualifiers, returning 20 match winners, returning 30 match winners, returning 40 match winners, returning state medal winners, etc., then you might see fewer losing records at state. Until then, it will always be screwed up, because you will always run the risk of one district being loaded and one having one or two dominant teams and that's it. This year, that wasn't so much the case.

SlverHwk, You are soooooo right on!

Been reading up on the Indiana state high school tournament. They started with an 8 team sectional a few weeks ago, then last week had an 8 qualifier regional. This weekend is their version of a 16 man district (full brackets). Top 4 qualify for state.

Oh and Indiana is a one class state tournament. Seems to work out pretty well for them.

I think that most class A wrestlers in district s A-3 and A-4 would argue being in a week district! Maybe B-2 might be as tough but I would bet there are not many others that can compare. Prove me wrong CLASS A bashers!

Playing devil's advocate to my own post, I guess there's really no way to guarantee that all returning wrestlers will be in the line-up, but it seems like there could be a better system.

I posted some numbers I crunched here but then thought I would just make a separate topic.

I agree that it can be easier to get to state on numbers alone but that does not mean the quality is not their. I wont say names because I respect what teams accomplish and do not look to bash them, but right now I am tired of hearing that my kids should not be proud of getting to the state tournament. We finished 17th in class A and had 7 state qualifiers last season. In a tournament with a class D team who finished in the top 5 at the state tournament we beat them by 56 team points. We were no where close to a top 10 team in class A yet we crushed a top 5 class D team. I know that this will rub some people the wrong way but I think we would qualify more wrestlers in a larger class D district them we will in the smaller class A district.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfulltinker:
Throwing another log on the fire here but I believe track and wrestling should be a one class system. While football basketball volleyball etc should be four classes.

Wishfultinker, the field event practice facility at our school is the rancher neighbor's bull pen nine months out of the year. Our runners use East Plumer Street for our track. Our wrestlers travel five miles everyday to practice at Maranatha Bible Camp (thank you) because our school only has one gym. Not complaining, just stating that some schools have to make do with much less.

Doesn't class D have a couple of weight classes that only 5 kids are in the bracket. It's not about being easier, it's about having fewer matches to quailify. These arguments all make sense but they can be applied to all classes. Don't just quote the old 8 man bracket argument. A 6 man bracket of Gilman, Bolling, Coufal, Teten, Thompson, and Wilman would be pretty darn hard to qualify in.

I believe Warrior's team recently beat a solid B school (however close) and put up a solid performance against a top rated B team.

Now I'm not concluding that A is better than B. I'm just a little on the defense due to the bashing.

No offense intended. Just a few ramblings

To Blaschko:

You throw out a lot of numbers for various B, C, and D districts but no class A averages are included. I realize that the reason for this is that the class A districts have not been seeded yet (or if they have, they haven’t been posted). What do you suppose the average class A district size per weight would be? I think you may have some idea of what the answers is, and that answer likely won’t support the theory you seem to be putting forth (theory being that it’s just as difficult to qualify in A as any other class – based on bracket size)

To Patriot152:

You’re right, Benson, South, and Northwest are not representative of class A . . . but neither is Grand Island. Grand Island’s JV team has won or competed well in several smaller class tournaments. In addition to that, I would venture a guess that their JV team would win a fair amount of duals against other class A varsity teams.

To Grapplindog:

“Maybe B2 might be as tough as A3 and A4” Ya think??? Naw !!!!!!!

To Slvrhwk:

Right on brotha !!!! I’m with ya

All class championship at the end! We can see who is the best! Take the champions from each weight in all classes and have a tournament! May the best one win!

I don't care who you are and where you live. jtr88....That would be AWSOME!

Sounds kinda like what they have in Indiana.

Not totally. But they all meet in the end. But no classes

Frank,

I agree that Grand Island is not representative of the average class A team, nor is NW or South. Thanks for helping me make my point. However, it might be said that Omaha Westside is a pretty average class A school. And look at what they have done this year against some solid B, C, and D schools.

Again I'm not suggesting that A is better than the rest. So let's debate that on the mat by going to a 1 class system.

Patriot:

I would say that Westside would beat the majority of class A teams in a dual easily.

Slvrhwk:

All you would really need to do is serpentine the top eight or maybe twelve teams in each class to properly balance the districts. We could use your criteria. I like it. This is something that should not only be done in class A but in all classes. I would love to see that.

Frank,

I agree with the serpentine concept...the reason why it will never happen is due to geographics.

A perfect example - if the B-4 district were in Scottsbluff, and Falls City or Auburn fell into that district due to the serpentine format...that's a looooooooooooooong road trip for a district meet, and it would be like that in every district meet.

It's just not going to happen, although it's a good solution to the problem of balancing districts (especially in Class B and D, where it seems the majority of state medalists come out of one district).

I will guess that I am one of the few people who have had the privilege to attend and wrestle for both a class A & D school. Each class and each school has positives and negatives. The point brought up by both side have merit, but the real question I have is what are you all arguing about?

If it is who the best wrestler at a given weight is, then the only way to solve that is a one class system, personally not a huge fan of this but that is the solution. You would still have arguments as to who the best overall wrestler is. Also some weights would be full and others would not, so maybe those that were not full we should tell the champions that their medals and hard work are not as good as those who had full brackets.

Do you feel that Class A is easier than B, C or D or vice versa? Well how are you truly going to measure that? I have yet to see a realistic way or a fair way to measure this argument; I can tell stories of 5 guys in a bracket a class D or 5 wrestlers with losing records in a bracket in class A, neither of these are a measure of what class is harder. Also don’t tell me about teams winning tournaments because that says nothing of the individual weights and wrestlers.

Some tournaments are tougher than others, but we don’t tell the medalists that they would not even be on the stand at tournament X so good job I guess. Or the wrestler at tournament X “Hey sorry you lost, too bad you were not at tournament Y you would have won the whole thing.” Why are people inclined to do that exact thing with districts and State? Each wrestler is given a bracket he wrestles that bracket, he does not control who is in his bracket. I say to each state qualifier good job and congratulations, good luck at state because everyone will need it there bracket are full and each and every weight at each class has several good wrestlers in it.

I was not trying to spark a one class debate. I love the Nebraska State Tournament. The number and variety of participants is what makes it great. I was just trying to point out that the distribution of wrestlers per districts is pretty equitable contrary to popular belief. It is a great accomplishment to make it to the state meet regardless of the class.

The one class system is never going to happen and it is a bad idea. The one class system kills participation and kills high school and college programs. If the one class system improves the level of wrestling so much shouldn't Indiana be a wrestling powerhouse? There is not a single IN team rated in the top 50 teams in the Intermat Rankings (CA only has two) and only 4 wrestlers rated overall. NE has four guys rated and Indiana has 6 times the population of NE. If the one class is the way to go shouldn't it increase the level college wrestling in the state of IN? I have listed the colleges in IN with wrestling below. Impressive isn't it! The tied for 8th place finish in the Big Ten by the Hoosiers last year is impressive. NE has 8 programs and three of the have won national titles within the past 5 years.

University of Indiana
Messiah College
Milwaukee School of Engineering
Morrisville State College
College of Mount St. Joseph
University of Mount Union
Muhlenberg College

If states like CA and IN went to a multi-class system the sport would blow up. Can you imagine if CA went to an at least 3 class system and tapped in to their 36 million population base? They would have 3 times the participants, 3 times the parents, friends and family involvement and three times the excitement generated. You would see a metamorphosis of wrestling on the west coast.

Addition is the key to growing our sport not subtraction.