I need to be careful here as this is a sacred subject in high school wrestling. I will tread lightly as if discussing the Virgin Mary with a Catholic. At what point in a season should "wrestle off's" end. In most sports you try out for a varsity spot in the first couple of weeks of practice and you either make it then or you don't. I am fortunate to be self employed and being hungry for wrestling knowledge, I have attended several high school wrestling practices over the past few years. I realize the coaches would rather I not be there, but like a "fly on the wall", I keep my mouth shut and just observe. Like all sports, there are some kids who really shine in practice and those kids that perform when it counts. I believe "wrestle off's" cause a degree of division among a wrestling "team". I know what you are thinking, "this jmoke has a kid that does not win his wrestle off's", this is not true. My son is a senior who has an outstanding "wrestle off" record and has never missed a varsity match due to a "wrestle off" defeat. In fact my son surely holds the record for "wrestle off" defenses at our school, he has never been a "protected" one, his spot has always been on the line. My son wrestles up in weight because he is at that point in life where he is not delusional about thinking he is the next Dan Gable. He just wants to have fun wrestling, enjoy participating in a sport for the last time in his life when anyone is going to care what the final score was and he want's to help his team. My son is 19-9 this year with only one "walk-over" win and (17) pins. Tomorrow he will face a JV kid for the sixth time this year in a wrestle off and my son will most likely once again prevail. At some point the highly motivated JV may take out the Varsity kid who must muster the will to beat the same kid again. Perhaps I miss the whole point of "wrestle off's", perhaps it is to make a wrestler mentally tougher. I know it is a way for a coach to not have to justify a line-up to a questioning parent.

We've come up with a pretty good system where the only time a JV can wrestle off is if he has a .500 record or above and the varsity wrestler is below .500.

Also, by the third wrestle-off, the challenger must have beaten the varsity guy at least once the previous two wrestle-offs.

I also come up with three different scenarios for wrestle offs (how often, format, etc.) and let the team vote. That way, they have ownership and when wrestle offs occur, I remind them that I am listening to their voice.

It's worked very well in the past.

SilverHawk, have you ever said something and almost immediately wish you had not? You replied several seconds before I had a chance to delete the post. Thanks for your comments just the same.

Why delete? You provide a valid point and valid questions.

SilverHawk, I am home today figuring out my income taxes so I have some computer time. I just don't want to come off as a whiner or appear to be undermining a terrific coach that if the "ca-ca" was to ever "hit the fan", I would have his back.

MaxCat,
I'm glad you didn't delete it because you raise some good points. At our school, I let them wrestling off for any tournament they want. If a varsity wrestler has been at a weight for two consecutive meets, the jv kid has to beat them two out of three times.
At the same time, this is the final week they can wrestle off (that is, if a kid has been varsity all year). If they have been going back and forth they could wrestle off to the end of they year. I think you have to give the jv kid opportunities otherwise they might loose the desire in the wrestling room.

Maxcat,

Good post! I too am a dad and not a coach. My kid was also pretty good by his senior year and didn't fear too much being challenged. But there was so much depth at our school that legitimate challenges were always a threat. An example; there was one very fine senior wrestler that year who actually was ranked #3 in state, who was challenged by a freshman the week before districts. He was beat out of his spot and consequently ended up not going to state. It was quite a dilemma for the coach but he went ahead and enforced the team rule that favored the freshman. The happy ending was that the freshman went on to take 5th at state. However is was a heartbreak for the senior and his family.

This is another example of why a team should have a couple of wildcards allowing two wrestlers in a single weight class.

Great post Max-Cat and I hope that people will realize that it's a fair question and not give you too much ca-ca. I went back and forth with another kid at my weight,(neither one of us were stand outs) so it seemed perfectly reasonable for us to wrestle off each week up until conference, as per our policy. Another kid on the team kept challenging the varsity kid each week even though he was never even close. The varsity kid finally put the boots to the kid enough that he stopped challenging. I would advise that your son use it as an exercise in focus to never let his gaurd down. The bottom line is that it's up to the coach to have a consistant policy and communicate it clearly at the beginning of the season. Either he didn't or you missed it. Personally I think SlvrHwk has a great policy.

Great to see some of these teams actually have a policy in place, my only thought would be are the policies actually followed? Around here the wrestle-off policy is pretty much this: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah The coaches decision is final blah blah blah. Really doesn't matter who wins the wrestle-offs or how many times they win them, wrestlers can (and will) be removed from the varsity line-up at any time and for losing any match that the coach thought they should have won. Little hint here Maxcat, if your son comes home from practice and mentions that the coaching staff spends much more time with the sub-500 challenger trying (unsuccessfully) to help him beat your son in the next "wrestle-off" than they do with any of the other guys in the room, BELIEVE HIM! and talk to the coach or AD right away- DONT WAIT! Which leads me to Pick125's last post - GOOD RIDDANCE would have been fired last year if he wasn't "tenured". Sour grapes make delicious wine I'll drink another glass this week looking at the results page and hearing about who's "injured" this week because they can't make weight and are afraid to challenge someone else because they might upset the legend.

Great questions MaxCat. I like that we cut ours off a couple weeks before districts. Kids shouldn't have to be worried about wrestle off's before the district tournament. However I think it is important to note that wrestling is one funny sport. What do you do when your JV and varsity have split all year long, trading back and forth? Do you cut it off or let them keep wrestling off until districts? Style often plays an important role in wrestling as well. If you have a dual against a team that loves the headlock and your varsity kids gets caught a lot but JV doesn't who do you put in? What about Varsity kid that isn't very reliable? Misses practice a lot (always sick out of school so it's not unexcused), very talented but lazy during practice, hothead that may that has been known to cost team points. I think it is important that coaches do have the final say in who is varsity because many strange things can happen over the season.

On a side note: I am so glad many people find the courage and conviction to call people out on this website and to all of you I say Bravo, Bravo. It takes a truly big person to bring up private team matters on a website.

A couple of years ago, I caught some scrutiny on this site for this policy: Wrestle-offs for my team are for tournaments; Dual line-ups will be selected by the head coach, in a manner that is best for the team and to reward individuals for their efforts, skill sets, and attendance. This policy is thoroughly gone over at our parents meeting so it is understood. The athletes may not like getting bumped or taking a forfeit or wrestling a state champion, but bottom line is that it is my call. This year I have two 119's and two 140's but zero 125s or 145s. During duals, I decide who, or if, a wrestler is going to wrestle 125 or 145. Sometimes the varsity 119 stays at 119 and gets a forfeit, sometimes I bump him to try and get a win at 125. During dual invites, I try to split it up and do what is best for the team score, but also for my wrestlers.... Just throwing that out there to get hashed again .............

I wish I had more wrestle offs and more numbers and more competition for varsity spots, but we are not quite there yet........yet....... My recruiting skill set isn't as good as it could be! (Wrestling is hard. It takes a lot of time, commitment, and dedication...... I need to stop being so honest!)

chief you do it like we do. we set the lineup in duals to pick our matchups. we dont believe in guarding records, so if we need you to take a loss to win a dual then so be it. for tournaments we have wrestle-off. 2 of 3 to start the season, after that if the varsity kid wins the first one it is over, if he loses we go 2 of 3.

I am curious if you (Maxcat) ever did talk to the coach. I agree that it should be up to the coach and hopefully he will be consistant, fair and reasonable. But even if his policy is "Whatever I say goes", that should be clearly communicated to the parents and wrestlers before the first practice. If my kid told me that was what the coach said, I would have a hard time believing it so as a parent, I would want to hear it from his mouth or see it written on an expectations hand out. And then I could ask him why he wants kids to play basketball.

Knightmare, my son knows nothing about this post. My son never complains or questions his coaches decisions. He never misses a scheduled practice and never says that he is sick or hurt. His Sophomore year he suffered a torn ligament at the base of his thumb midway through the season. The school trainer and a sports MD told him his season was finished. My son taped it up endured the pain and closed out the season winning matches and doing what he could (dropping (30) pounds) to help his team. His coach rewarded my son with the team's "heart" award at the annual banquet. Burned out with wrestling, my son played basketball last year and never saw a varsity minute. It was kind of fun to watch a 5ft, 6in. point guard blocking out 6ft, 2in. forwards and winning the battle. This year he decided to wrestle as a Senior. I took him to a pre-season (weekend prior to start of wrestling practice) one day camp in Kearney to help tune up and what does he do, he injures his thumb again. We take him to the sports MD who advises my son and I as to the seriousness of his injury. The doctor insists on a cast that will have to be worn for at least a month and a half and probably longer. This would mean that my wrestler would most likely miss all wrestling up to Christmas break. My son is not that crazy about school and sports has got him through to this point. I recall pleading with the doctor to be creative with the cast and make it small enough to be hidden with some white tape. We walked out of the doctors office with a bright pink (my son is very comfortable with his masculinity) cast on his hand the size of a cantaloupe. I tried my best to console and resign him to the fact of being a cheerleader. Two weeks go by and the first "wrestle off's" are the next day with the first meet two days later. I come home from work to find my son cutting away at his wrist with the same saw we had used to butcher a Mule Deer a month earlier. My son is hard headed and I am not going to change his mind, so I become Dr. Kevorkian and assist him in removing his cast carefully with a small grinder. I figured if he is going to do it, let's do it right without the loss of blood. I modified a thumb brace that I bought at Wal-Mart, wrapped it with white tape and called it good. He has not re-injured his thumb (knock on wood) and his injury has healed to the point of little or no pain. As of last week he no longer wears the fabricated brace. I was just a bit surprised to hear that he was still part of weekly "wrestle off's" and as I am always wanting to learn more of wrestling's culture, I had to ask. As stated earlier this post was seven seconds from not existing as I realized that I should ask the coach first. I am wrong for not doing so.

Chief, sounds about right for us as well. We do make a point of weighing kids if we know a wrestling off is to be say in a day or two. That each wrestlers weight must be in a close range of each other(gets determined). When it comes to team events its all about match up.

Maxcat, I probably understand where you're coming from better than you think. I understand a parents reluctance to step in when the kid seems to be handling things well enough on his own. I applaud that and your kid is probably closer to independence because of it. I just wondered if you had an aside with the coach. Explaining to him that your kid is not complaining and that it's you that is seeking to understand. I also wondered if he had explained the policy to the team and parents at the beginning of the season. "My stir the pot" icon was a reference to coaches that take a hard line on the "it's my way or the highway without explanation" philosophy. They are entitled to it and to an extent I agree that it's necessary. But there are coaches (very few) that refuse to regard anything or anyone else.