quote:

Originally posted by bjohns26:
I dont want to ruffle any feathers (which I suppose is generally code for, "I'm going to ruffle some feathers") and I do mean for this to sound like an honest question.

Does this topic point to why Nebraska struggles to compete with "the wrestling states" on a regular basis? Do kids in other states (i.e. California, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey, New York, etc) attempt to participate in multiple sports? More importantly, do they attempt to participate in spring sports? I know many play football, but after the regular high school season when freeco kicks in, are these other states splitting attention. I am amazed by the dominance put forth by many of these states and the sheer number of kids they bring to major competitions. What will it take to get there? Nebraska takes 15ish kids to Fargo total and teams like California, Pennsylvania, even Missouri have teams of 30, 40 or 50. Per age group.

Really!

California population 37 million
Pennsylvania population 13 million
Missouri population 6 million
Nebraska 1.7 millions

To answer your question NO for the most part they don't compete in multiple sports in larger schools and populations bases.

Nebraska struggles in larger tournament because WE DO NOT HAVE THE POPULATION that other states have! It's that simple! If you took our top 20 kids we would be very competitive with other states top 20 but it falls off very quickly after that while other states who HAVE MORE PEOPLE have; more competition, can afford to have kids specialize because schools are larger, can train year round in clubs with top notch coaches, have a larger resource to draw income from businesses who will support their clubs, and did i mention MORE PEOPLE!

Stop comparing Nebraska to states such as California, Pennsylvania or even Missouri. Be proud of the Nebraska kids who attend these tough tournaments and get themselves better, stop wasting time comparing states.

To answer your question what will it take to get there. Start having MORE BABIES Encourage your friends and neighbors to adopt kids, have children until they are in their late 50's, lets pass a state law that requires each married couple to have at least 10 children and 7 of them must be boys. Then we will have the population base to compete with New York and California.

quote:

Originally posted by Loosvelt:
Nebraska struggles in larger tournament because WE DO NOT HAVE THE POPULATION that other states have!

Not sure how the above logic would allow GI to be so dominate in wrestling right now then? Lincoln has 8 times the population, Omaha has 15 times the population, shouldn't those cities represent more on the podium at state then? Smaller populations can produce larger numbers but that has to be more the focus of the population. Likewise why doesn't China win all of the Olympic Sports and India second? It is more than population and numbers though they do play a part.

As far as the dual sports issue goes, my kids have the sports they love, the sports they are good at and the sports they participate in. Those do not always match up, but when they do that sport gets the greater commitment. As far as off season issues I think if the sport can be a cross training for another sport use it, otherwise table it until the season.

Lincwre if you take the total number of omaha kids vs the total number of Grand Island kids on the Podium then Omaha has a huge advantage its the number of schools that Omaha and Lincoln have. Not taking anything away from Grand Island but what is the population of the school? Don't know but your logic that way doesn't make any sense.


Just in Class A
Omaha 28 (omaha and millard schools and Ralston)
GI 10
Class B
Omaha-6 (not counting boys town)
Grand Island-1

Add two more for GI in Class c

Totals
34-13 omaha advantage. This doesn't mean Omaha is a better wrestling town but maybe population does play a part

Numbers might be a little off but they are close

This message has been edited. Last edited by: huskernut,

To compare ourselves to other states is to see our progress or lack thereof, whichever may be the case. If we want to compete on a national level we must compare ourselves with other states. The population argument goes right back to a common thread on this forum of class A versus class B versus class X. Should it be accepted that class A kids will be better because there is a greater population. I don't believe that. I think something bigger is at play here. Iowa has a population roughly twice that of Nebraska, yet Iowa had 44 wrestlers at the Junior National tournament. If it is merely proportional ratios at work, Nebraska should have somewhere around 20 kids. The Nebraska Junior team had 7 participants. I have to believe that to compete on a National scale, we have to emphasize these kinds of competitions and the training that comes along with them. Our in state competition can do nothing but improve the more kids we can get seeking out national level competition.

bjohns you have kind of illustrated my concern. It seems that so many people are so obsessed with the "level of competition" that they forget what sports do on the grand scale. I have my kids in sports as 1. A way to model the effort = reward philosophy. 2. Stay in good physical condition. 3. Make school more palatable. 3. Hopefully help pay for some secondary education. Speaking of ruffling feathers, I really don't care how Nebraska wrestlers stack up against anyone. What I care about is that kids learn work ethic, respect for others and to win and lose with dignity. There is no medal for that but even if my son never stands atop the podium, he will be on it and he will know how to enjoy life in all it's glory. Life is not all about competition. It's about being a complete person.

And some would argue that a complete person has engaged in many forms of competition!

Again I want to clarify that I have no problem with someone who wants to set a singular goal and focus on nothing else but acheiving it. It's just not my philosophy.

Agreed Chiefstorm. That's why I like seeing kids in more than one sport. Just not necessarily at the same time. Again, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done. I just wonder about the widom of it, and how coaches feel about it.

Maybe my question should be, When do we let our kids relax? I don't want a couch potato anymore than anyone else. But I also don't want my kid to never have a moment where he isn't competing. Ball diamond, mat, track, class room, when does a kid get to just hang out and relieve some of the stress of competition. We wonder why kids turn to drugs, it might be because they only have a half hour to relax and have forgotten how. With constant pressure to be the best!, train harder!,COMPETE COMPETE COMPETE!!, constantly pushing down on them, they have trouble just enjoying being alive and healthy. I know very well that life is full of competition and people need to know how to compete but they also need to know that not everything has to be a competition and to sometimes just relax and watch the clouds float by. I'm saying all this because I had a "come to Jesus" moment when my son as a freshman said he didn't want to wrestle anymore. I never thought I pushed him too hard but I listened to him and backed off and I think we're both better off because of it. End of rant.

I believe it is up to the kid when and if they want to concentrate on one sport or the other. Sooner or later they will decide which sport, or sports they want to pursue long-term. It may not be until they get to college that they decide. Some kids can handle a constant practice schedule year around and others have just had enough. We have gone through all of these scenarios, and in the end the kid has to choose. Just support them and take them where they want to go, and sometimes push them a little too, they will thank you in the end. I do think though a kid needs time to not be in a sport! Work is also an important part of a kids life, and it's hard to have a job that makes much money during the summer, if you are always at practice, or gone to a camp! I know a lot of coaches don't understand if a kid has to work, but kids can't have nice stuff, if they don't work, and believe me they like nice stuff!! Also if their work is on a farm, they will be doing all the weight lifting and exercise they need to return to school in tip top shape

quote:

Originally posted by huskernut:
Totals
34-13 omaha advantage. This doesn't mean Omaha is a better wrestling town but maybe population does play a part

These numbers are exactly my point, omaha does have more, but it should have 20-30 times more just looking at population so it should have 250-350 on the podium which would not be possible, even just looking a t the number of school it should have ten times more than GI. Population does play a role, but it is not the reason, there are other factors that often play a larger role.

Look at a different sport, how many Division I hockey player come from Texas vs. North Dakota if you just look at the populations Texas should have a huge advantage but not so. Some sports have a culture in a particular place that increases the participation, it is not mainly a population issue, though that is a factor. That is my whole point.

Lincwre you are using bloated numbers, why 20-30 times more omaha is not 20-30 times larger than GI. The other thing you need to take into account is how many more schools Omaha has compared to Grand Island. That may mean more opportunities to wrestle but it also means more sports, clubs, choirs, bands, and other things to pull kids away from wrestling. There are several factors as to why Nebraska wrestling didn't have a strong showing at Fargo or other national tournaments. Population is a big one. Also the demographics of the state. How many kids outside of Omaha and Lincoln cannot do anything in the spring because that is planting season. I know there were several kids at my highschool in that boat. Money is probably another big factor as a lot of parents won't spend vacation type cash just so little johnny can go wrestle, and he may be done after two matches. The competition does scare some parents. Would it help if we were under one national organization (USA AAU Huskerland) that would set up going to events instead of having three different organizations? If you ever go to coaches clinics and listen to coaches outside the state you will find that Nebraska is one of the few states that protects participation in all athletics. Which is one thing I think the NSAA does really well. I know a lot of people don't like the NSAA on this site, but if you are a advocate of kids doing all the sports they can then what the NSAA does is a good thing. Most other states like Texas and California allow things like spring football.
I truly believe that the state of Nebraska wrestling is in a good place. Our kids seem to do just fine at mid and low level colleges. (What state were two out of three UNO national champs from?) Could it be better you bet, but comparing us to other states is just pointless.

Chief I would agree! Many kinds of competition.
I remember a great coach once said, he would rather his athletes go out for those other sports that they weren't as good at, so that they could learn to compete in a different way(so when they got to college it wasn't such a big shock not being the best).
He would also find out a bit more about their character and how they handled that adversity.

Last summer I was watching a KC Royals baseball game on TV. George Brett, a Major League Baseeball Hall of Famer, was a guest in the press box. In the interview he mentioned something about his sons in high school. The announcer asked him if his boys were baseball players. He said that they were in the spring and summer. The announcer asked why they didn't play in fall leagues. Brett answered that he was glad that they were in baseball, but was also glad they were in football and wrestling and that the fall baseball leagues would interfere with football. Smart man.

I am all for competition in it's many forms and I firmly believe that kids need to learn how to compete. What I like to see from 98% of my wrestlers is to go out for another sport and make academics priority number one, in season sport priority number two and wrestling next in line. Even at priority number 3, most kids should be able to get on a mat once or twice a week. What I dont understand is that Nebraska is unable to field a full team at national events. Even if you aren't training like a madman, but getting a few wrestling workouts a week, I would like to see Nebraska field a full team. I realize that competing on a national level won't happen overnight, but the first step has to participation in national events. I think the more kids who get to experience wrestling on a larger stage, the more competitive our state will become. As we build competitiveness within our state, our ability to compete nationally will also increase.

So, of course, school comes first. And for the majority of kids, your in season sport comes next. And then, when you can fit it in, get on a mat, hit a a tournament or two. I think wrestling has shifted to a December to July sport. I am not promoting any kids wrestle 12 months of the year. But, I have to believe we have more than 7 kids who want to experience wrestling on a larger stage and I think it can fit in and around other sports.

quote:

Originally posted by Loosvelt:
To answer your question what will it take to get there. Start having MORE BABIES Encourage your friends and neighbors to adopt kids, have children until they are in their late 50's, lets pass a state law that requires each married couple to have at least 10 children and 7 of them must be boys. Then we will have the population base to compete with New York and California.

Another great Dragon quote. Not quite as good as the one about disagreeing with the Wood River coach on the quality of state tournament officials, but still on the Top 10 list.

I have a response to Kenny's comment that Frank quoted, but I'm afraid it's not fit for this forum.