2 reasons not to vote for Barack Obama

1) He's the most proud, open and energizing socialist we've ever seen.

2) He has a retarded view of the 2nd-Amendment.


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2 reasons not to vote for John McCain

1) He's dang near as much of a socialist as his opponent for the White House.

2) He is not even close to fiscal conservatism and reduced government spending.



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Now give me 2 reasons not to vote for Chuck Baldwin other than the classic "he doesn't have a chance to win" or "a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for his opponent" (which are moot points if you vote your conscience).

Interesting.



Very interesting...

Red Rocker, why are you surprised that nobody has commented to your post? You eliminated the two important points that people would make in answering your question. Your dismissal of these as "moot" points based on a "conscience" vote is not valid. You are saying not to vote for the lesser of two evils, instead vote for a guy who cannot win and who will take votes away from someone who can win. I call that voting for the third evil. Therefore, my conscience tells me not to vote for him.

If I were to answer the question the way you intended, I would opine that your guy has never held any elected public office that I am aware of. How will he handle media scrutiny? How will he handle foreign affairs? He has no record to go on. He may believe in some good things, but how does that transfer to running the country? Experience is a huge question mark for Dr. Baldwin in my opinion.

In my opinion, voting the "lesser of two (or three) evils" is what has gotten this country to the point it is today. Whether anyone believes it or not, we are on the verge of socialism. The "bailout" is a prime example. And I believe both major party candidates voted for it.

I can agree that experience is a question mark. As far as record to go on, the record of the two major party candidates is enough for me to say enough is enough and I will not vote for either of them. I will vote for the candidate that reflects the same ideals that I hold dear.

I refuse to vote for a bad candidate just because I don't want a worse candidate to hold the office. I do not subscribe to the theory that it is wrong for me to vote for any candidate because that takes votes "away" from one candidate who has a chance to win. It may take another "Carter-like" presidency for this country to wake up and see what is happening.

I agree with your points. They have merit. However, the most salient point for me is the issue of judicial nominees. The president may be out in four years and the country may be awaken to see the acute problems caused, but the damage will have been done to the courts and it will be chronic. The social re-engineering experiment will continue by proxy via the courts for years to come. Don't we have an obligation to stop that kind of judicial tyranny from happening, if possible?

The Supreme Court angle is a valid point also. And I would agree that we need to stop that kind of tyranny from happening. One way is through the election of Senators who ultimately approve the Justices. But that can be dicey also.

That is precisely my point! When Clinton was President, the vast majority of his appointments sailed through because the Republicans accepted the traditional role of the senate to give an up or down vote on the judicial appointment based on his/her qualifications and with the understanding that it(judicial nomination)is a presidential perk. Bush did not receive the same respect. The democrats played hardball on many Bush appointees and denied the up or down vote for them. Disgraceful! And the reasons why were for ideology, not for qualified or not qualified according to their constitutional mandate. Can you imagine what kind of Obama nominees will breeze through a democratic controlled Congress under the leadership of Reid and Pelosi?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Vader,

I shudder to think about what kind of socialist, legislate from the bench types might be offered.

That in a nutshell is the crux of this election.

Socialism vs Freedom.

JMHO

Another issue that is not being talked about by the national media or even by McCain for that matter is abortion/stem cell research. I believe in the sanctity of human life, Obama does not. Here is a well written article that talks about this and ties it with our previous topic of judicial appointments.

Obama's Abortion Extremism

That is another reason I don't care for the Senator from Illinois.


Nice to have a reasonable exchange of ideas.


Thanks Vader.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul it is easy to get Paul's agreement that it is a good idea. When I first read your "Two Reasons" post I thought it was a good idea; that maybe it would wake both parties up to the idea that we didn't like the direction they are headed. I still think it is a good idea for those of you who live in the First and Third Districts. But here in the Second District I don't think I can "waste" my vote on a guy who doesn't have a chance because he doesn't have the big money behind him. In Omaha we have a much higher percentage of "Pauls" than you outstate people do. I don't want the First District to give an electoral vote to the candidate who is an avowed socialist.

We can recover from a bad presidency; we've done it before. As Vader pointed out, the real danger to the country is the Supreme Court judges who will probably be appointed in the next 4 or 8 years. Their influence will be felt for years. I remember in the 1950's and 60's when cases were sent to the Supreme Court and they refused to hear them. They followed the law of our land and knew that the role of the Supreme Court was to rule on the constitutionality of federal laws. So when they received a case over law not covered in the Constitution they sent it sent back to the states. Then the politicians began to discover that when they couldn't pass the legislation that they wanted they could get activist judges to pass it for them. Article XII of the U.S. Constitution establishes the duties and responsibilities of the Supreme Court. Section 2 tells us, "The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this constitution, the laws of the United States, and the treaties made, or shall be made, under their authority".

We have a large number of people saying that a woman's right to abortion is guaranteed by the U. S. constitution. I have read the U. S. Constitution several times and most of the Federalist Papers and have never seen the word "abortion" in either document. Therefore, I have trouble seeing how the Constitution "guarantees the right of abortion". 7 people, none of whom were elected by the people, decided that abortion was guaranteed in the Constitution.

As the USA accelerates the slide into socialism I am amazed at the institutions that are leading that slide. Aside from political parties I don't believe that you can find two institutions more in favor of socialism than higher education and the media. When other countries have slid into socialism what are the first two institutions to be eliminated or severely curtailed? In most cases higher education higher, as we know it, is disbanded in favor of an indoctrination system. People who can teach student how to think are replaced with people who can indoctrinate. The media is taken over by the government and there is no free press, only the government side of issues is allowed to be published.

GO FIGURE.

"Don't run with scissors. You could put your eye out." Mom

How did the law suit come out?

2010 days and counting....

quote:

Originally posted by ref:
How did the law suit come out?

2010 days and counting....

With all due respect Mr. Ayers, for the life of me I cannot see where anyone in this discussion has referred to any lawsuit.


If you would care to defend Mr. Obama's marxist/socialist policies, I'm sure many of us would be willing to listen.

Ref, there was a different thread that talked about the lawsuit. Did you know that or were you being antagonistic?

Here is the link that talks about why the judge through the lawsuit out last Friday... Read it here

Here is the actual written order by the judge...

Read it here

Thanks, not antagonistic, just wondering how it turned out.

Thanks Mike for the advice, but it's 'Ayres' not 'Ayers' like my cousin Bill.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ref,

If this doesn't scare the crap out of you, nothing will.


"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the National Security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."



B. H. Obamba



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Sounds like AmeriCorps, only with guns (which are legal).

quote:

Originally posted by SlvrHwk:
Sounds like AmeriCorps, only with guns (which are legal).

AmeriCorps with guns????


From the socialist whose own voting record is completely contrary to the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States?


Sounds more like long boots and arm bands to me.


And yes BTW I do cling to my religion and my guns.

I find it somewhat amusing that individuals on here are calling Obama a "socialist". Wow. Some of you are doing whatever you can to paint Obama as a poor choice for President. Its too bad that the RNC just didn't have commercials on TV that had big words written out on the TV screen (in bold letters, for more effect) SOCIALIST, HATES CHRISTIANS, GUNS WILL GO AWAY, BEST FRIENDS WITH TERRORIST, WANTS TO KILL BABIES. Most of the people that throw around the word "socialist" don't even know what it means. Seriously I hope that this doesn't continue after Obama wins tonight.

By the way, I'm probably sure a lot of people on this board don't make over $200,000 a year. What's not appealing about taxes not being raised for us? When did Obama say anything about taking away guns? If you mean machine guns, maybe. This is getting so old. Why don't people just come out and say what they want to say about Obama? This is a race issue moreso than anything, in my opinion. Hopefully America will be okay after the elections tonight. I know my world doesn't change much regardless of who's elected.