What do people think about the new rule that the matches against jv kids don't count in the districts. I know most big schools will say they shouldn't but at the class D varsity tournaments some jv kids wrestle. also other teams in that tournament might have 2 wrestlers at a weight and they enter both to fill out the bracket. If you don't count these jv kids then class D schools will loose around 1/3 to 1/2 of their matches. People might say that every school in the district is in the same boat but not everyone has the same schedule. The tournaments won't invite the bigger schools jv to come because they won't count. I don't like this rule because I believe it really wasn't thought out by the NSAA and it looked good on paper. It hurts class D wrestling teams and it needs to be looked at. What does everyone lse think?

If the match was at a Varsity tournement it would be a varsity match and should count . If it was at a JV tournement then it is a JV match and should not count .

In the past some kids would wrestle JV early then move up to varsity due to injury or other issue with the Varsity wrestler . They would then try to use the JV record to help with seeding .If the JV record is 20-1 with 5 wins from the JV atending a varsity tourney and the varsity record is 4-2 the District seeding record should be 9-2 .

Hadn't heard anything about it until this post. Went to the NSAA website and downloaded the Wrestling Manual and sure enough.

Here's a link to the manual to read it for yourself...

quote:

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7. For seeding purposes only at the NSAA District Wrestling Tournament, the record of all wrestlers in each weight class is to be based only on varsity competition (varsity vs. varsity). A varsity wrestler’s wins over or losses to a junior varsity wrestler cannot be counted in the overall record used for seeding for the District Wrestling Tournament. Likewise, a student who wrestles as a junior varsity wrestler cannot use that junior varsity record in District Wrestling Tournament seeding, even though some of those matches were wrestled against varsity competition. The varsity/junior varsity status of a wrestler is determined by the wrestler’s status on the date the match occurred.

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Completelty retarded.

Who was the rocket scientist that dreamed this up??

This will hurt both the Varsity and the JV wrestlers. As guest stated, many of the smaller school invitationals include larger school's JV teams, now the smaller schools won't be able to count the matches against a JV kid. At the same time if a kid wrestles JV most of the year but because of illness or injury is competing in the District tournament, they will basically have no record unless they have filled in a tournament or dual earlier in the season.

I bet a lot of schools field 2 Varsity teams this year...

If all of the coaches agree that this rule stinks, and all of the coaches agree that they will use the matches in those tournaments, then who really cares what the NSAA says? What are they going to do, fire you? If everyone follows the same format, regardless of what some moron with a tie wrote, then I'd call it good.

You can not call your JV kids varsity when they wrestle the smaller school invites. If you do, then you have to count the points towards your toatl for the year. Basically, the end of large schools going to C & D tournaments will be over! Those matches will not count for seeding. SO no two teams, that was a stupid idea, and mopping up on someones JV is over! Time for a two class system. Combine AB and CD...time to get serious about a try state champion! Not 4 in each weight class. That is ridiculous with the limited number of schools and kids out for wrestling anyways!

if it is at a varsity tournament then the record should count end of discussion, this rule doesn't make sense. No smaller school tournaments will want bigger schools jv becasue they don't count, good luck getting into tournaments with your jv team.

The rule is this

Not how your opponet is classified but how you are classified!

If I enter a match as a JV wrestler my match is a JV match!

I enter a tournament as a JV wrestler then all my match are JV regardless who I wrestle.

If I luck out and defeat a state champ it cannot be used as a district seeding argument!

Got IT?

What about the state champion that gets beat? Does he not have to count that as a lose because he lost to a JV wrestler?

On the other side of the coin, a wrestler who IS varsity and would have ended the season with a 30-6 (.833) record but wrestled 10 of those matches against someone else's JV kids going 9-1 ends up being 21-5 (.807) those percentage differences could make a big difference in a District Seeding meeting.

I believe this is penalizing the smaller schools way more than it is keeping the "varsity" wins off the JV wrestler's record. Now, many first round matches at a local tournament don't mean anything if a JV kid is involved. Yes, a coach could still count the win (or loss) for seeding in other local tournaments down the road but come district time it means nothing.

If you look through results at many of the smaller town tournaments, there are many times 2 or 3 JV squads entered. Some of them doing well in the tournament. Now it will be up to the schools to decide if they want to keep the JV's in the tournament, find other teams to replace them or have a lot more byes in their tournament. I just don't see how this can be good for wrestling overall in the state.

quote:

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Originally posted by fan:
What about the state champion that gets beat? Does he not have to count that as a lose because he lost to a JV wrestler?

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As far as seeding for the District Tournament, that is correct.

Personally, I think this is a situation that arose from past conflicts at districts with a very small number of unscrupulous coaches and now the NSAA feels they need to address the problem. It is a bad idea though for all classes of wrestling and the sport in general throughout the state for two reasons.
First, smaller schools build interest in their tournaments by bringing in large jv school squads. If an opposing coach knows his athletes will only get two matches at a given tournament it is difficult to convince other teams to join your school's tournament. Quality JV teams help build smaller tournaments depth in early rounds. Occasionally, some excellent up and coming wrestlers come out of these jv teams as well.
Secondly, this ruling will negatively affect larger school's because there is no incentive for smaller school's to desire JV teams at their tournaments now, thus, larger school's will have a much more difficult time getting their younger kids the same number of matches/experience as they've had in the past. As a state, Nebraska is already far behind other states in terms of experience on the mat. This certainly won't be beneficial to that situation.
In essence, I think the legislation was well intentioned but not well thought out. Something like this should be looked at by coaches, not politicians in my opinion. I'm guessing this rule will be changed next year at this time.

Coaches cheating on records and weights? NEVER! But in fact they do. The problem arises at the seed meeting when someone wants to call out "My kid beat a class A JV kid, He must be better" Or Better yet, "I lost to a JV kid who is now varsity and he is a stud"

Time to cure all of this stuff...every kid, every weigh in, every match is listed on a web site where a data base keeps track of all the results. At district time a report is generated and you have all of the results that have been kept and verified weekly on the web. No more made up record sheets coming out of the coaches book bag!

I did not know of this rule until now. This rule will make you think what tournament you will be attending. There are 2 of our tournaments that have JV teams in them and most of the rest fill out their brackets with JV. Will hurt us to go to a tournament and end up losing matches because of this. GO4ZPIN statement is what I would think would be the appropriate rule on this but with the NSAA you can plan on this making to much sence.
Would of been nice to know of this ruling coming, could of changed some tournaments to avoid this.

I agree this rule could have a big effect on scheduling. Right now our JV team is scheduled to wrestle in two Varsity tournaments. I am wondering if these teams will even invite us back in the future, if they cannot count their matches against our JV wrestlers in their varsity record. I thought the activities association had already addressed the issue of counting matches wrestled as JV against varsity competition. It was my understanding that it was already the case that those could not be considered as part of your record. What determined your varsity record was what level you were wrestling for your team. If you were wrestling on varsity (regardless of what level your opponent was) it counted as a varsity match, if you were not wrestling on varsity it did not. I thought this clarification had taken care of the conflicts at seeding meetings over what constituted a varsity record. Not only does our JV wrestle in varsity meets, when our varsity wrestles in Liberty, Mo, Liberty wrestled their JVs to fill out the brackets. If they do this again next year we will not be able to count those matches on our record. I think this new rule will be bad for both the larger schools and the smaller schools. The smaller schools will have more trouble filling their invites and the larger schools might not be able to get that really tough competition for their JVs. I think this rule is intended to fix a problem that no longer exists and only creates problems.

Has anyone addressed this in a rules meeting yet? Want to know their reasoning.
Looked back at a tournament we attended last year where one of my sons wrestled 2 Jv and 2 Varsity, went 3-1 but with this ruling would of ended up 1-1. Would of killed us in rankings for districts. The bad part is we are in that tournament this year. If this stays in place we will have to leave it.

The implications of this rule, as presented and explained here so far, could prove disastrous to scheduling for many, many schools. The more I read this, the more I imagine of its negative impact, the more hard pressed I am to find any positive impact. Can anyone out there put a valid positive spin on this? Can anyone explain just what actually landed this matter in hands of NSAA? Was/is the subject of district seeding being done so unscrupulously that it required NSAA legislation? Does NSAA ask for input right here at home before blanket change of this nature or does this come more from a national perspective? Is it even possible to have reconsidered?

With the points situation, it is my understanding a varsity kid can not have more than 30 points to be able to wrestle in districts. We send our JV's to varisty tounrnaments and also allow them to wrestle varsity duals, against other teams when our "varsity" kids don't. This counts against their points. The reason for making sure that a team only has 30 points is to help ensure the kids only wrestle up to 30 points. This was my understanding

I do believe this is a dumb rule because what incentive does tournaments have now to allow JV kids to wrestle. We go to tournaments when class A or other JV's from the teams fill out the brackets. This is going to hurt the JV's kids chance for mat time, and also hurt the numbers of kids who participate in matches. (especially if they know they won't be able to wrestle as much)

This is a really stupid rule because we go to a lot of tournaments around here that have JV teams in them. My biggest concern when I heard about this rule though was my JV kids. We do not go to any JV tournaments and the only mat time my JV kids get is when they are allowed to wrestle unattached at tournaments. Now there is no reason for coaches to let them into the tournament, so how do they get matches. I might have as many as 3 kids wrestling JV this year and two of them I will need sometime down the road, but why would they stay out if they don't get to wrestle?

It appears to me that there may be a large number of kids out there with inflated Career records.

Inflated career records? Guest do you mean they added their JV matches in when they were not in a varsity tournament? If this is what you are saying then this would be wrong. I hope this is what you are implying. Because otherwise I am taking it as these matches against JV are gimmies. I have seen many a JV wrestler who could be varsity at most other schools. If you think people are padding their records by this you are wrong.